Monday, August 23, 2010

The Ground Zero Synagogue—Lebanon Becoming More American than America


"There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia. The time for double standards that allow Islamists to behave aggressively toward us while they demand our weakness and submission is over.”— Newt Gingrich

Has Lebanon officially become more tolerant and progressive than the United States?

Let's talk about Lebanon’s Ground Zero and you can decide for yourself.

One must first understand what “Ground Zero” means to most Lebanese.

In a country with about the same land mass as Los Angeles County which has been at war off and on for nearly four decades, “Ground Zero” for the Lebanese is arguably their entire country—and at the center of their Ground Zero is downtown Beirut, captured and occupied by the Israeli Defense Force in 1982 and which was almost entirely reduced to rubble from Muslim West Beirut to Christian East Beirut, and all points in between.

Once upon a time not too long ago, there was scarcely a building left standing or unscarred by shrapnel in all of Beirut.  I know, because I was in Beirut in 1991, and witnessed first hand a city once described as "the Paris of  the Middle East" reduced to ruins, pock marked with unexploded munitions and a haphazard "network" of open sewers. 

Miraculously,  Beirut was rebuilt and reclaimed its prominence.  It once again became the jewel of the Arab world, remarkably able to bridge the ancient mystique of the east with the modern allure of the west. 

Upon the first completion of its "rebuilding" process however--after 15 years and tens of billions of dollars spent on reconstructing Lebanon and its Ground Zero from rubble to splendor, Israel did what Israel does...

In July and August of 2006, Israel again followed through on its promise to “bomb Lebanon back into the Stone Age,” and in so doing displaced 1,000,000 Lebanese civilians (nearly a quarter of the country’s population), completely destroyed the country’s infrastructure (again), its only airport, at least 64 bridges, leveled entire buildings and neighborhoods to rubble (again), including the country's largest milk factory, a food factory, two pharmaceutical plants, water treatment centers, power plants, grain silos, a Greek Orthodox Church, several mosques, and a handful of hospitals (in a country which only had a handful of hospitals to begin with).

Over 1,200 hundred Lebanese civilians were killed and over 5,000 wounded.

Israel routinely talks about “proportionality” when comparing their “terrorism deaths” to American 9/11 deaths. In order to shock the sensibilities of a gullible American public, they portray a figure “in American terms,” by multiplying their dead by a number which reflects their population in comparison to the American population.

Well, what’s good for the Israeli goose is good for the Lebanese gander. I will play their game: 1,200 dead Lebanese civilians are the “proportional equivalent” to 90,000 American dead when accounting for the two countries’ population differences. Therefore, according to Israeli goose math, that’s the equivalent of roughly thirty 9/11’s Israel exacted on Lebanon in July and August 2006 over the course of 34 days—nearly one 9/11 a day for an entire month without relent.

Incidentally, July and August of 2006 only tell a small part of the story when it comes to Israeli aggression against Lebanon. There have been decades of invasion, devastation, and occupation which predated 2006. Several thousands of Lebanese have been killed at the hands of the Israeli Defense Force. Tens of billions of dollars of damage have been levied on the Lebanese infrastructure and private and public property courtesy of the IDF over the course of decades.

“Ground Zero” for Lebanon is an ever expanding, never ending, open wound that never heals.

So what now Newt?

Should you expect the Lebanese to allow a synagogue to be built on their Ground Zero, in the aftermath of a 9/11 that occurred 5 years after ours and which, “proportionately” speaking, was 30 times the size of ours?

Well guess what you hateful, misguided, twit? 

THEY DID.

In the process of re-building Beirut yet again, in 2008, renovations began and have now been completed on the Maghden Abraham Synagogue located in the middle of newly renovated downtown Beirut in an area known as the “Solidere" which has become the focal point and showcase of Lebanon’s rebirth.

This isn’t some hole in the wall, nondescript, “excuse me” synagogue hidden out of view so as to not “offend” Lebanese non-Jews—this is an elaborate, ornate, beautifully designed, cathedral-style house of worship built for a Lebanese Jewish population that totals less than 500 in a country of more than 4,000,000 (in stark contrast to the eight million American Muslims living in the United States).

And wait until you hear Hezbollah’s response to the building of this Ground Zero Synagogue.

(To those expecting a Newt Gingrich equivalent response, prepare to be woefully disappointed).

Courtesy of Hassan Nasrallah himself: "We respect Judaism, just as we respect Christianity. Our only problem is with Israel."

Did you hear that Newt (and the rest of you idiots)?

An Arab democracy, with a Muslim Prime Minister and a Christian President, allowed the building of a synagogue, squarely in the center of their “Ground Zero” in the heart and pride of downtown Beirut which used to be a dumping ground for Israeli military ordinances.

An Arab democracy allowed this, without so much as a protest being made by its citizens, or allegations by politicians that this was sacrilege, or hateful commentary by the media that the Jewish faith was barbaric, or any of the other stupidity I have seen and heard plastered all over American television, talk radio, and internet-blogs regarding a certain “Ground Zero Mosque” and the Islamic faith.

Regardless of whether you perceive Israel to be justified in perpetrating the devastation it did on Lebanon is irrelevant. The purpose of this article is not to debate that.  What cannot be debated, is that Israel (a Jewish State, flying a Jewish flag) unleashed hell on Lebanon for 34 straight days in July and August of 2006 (and for decades prior in its wars against Lebanon). Regardless of whether or not you feel Israel had a right to do that, you cannot deny that Lebanese civilians harbored, and continue to harbor, a very real resentment against the government of Israel—this Jewish state—for those actions and the devestation those actions caused.

Yet these very Lebanese, who are so quickly labeled as “blood thirsty terrorists” by Newt Gingrich and his army of xenophobic morons, were able to draw a distinction between the Jews “flying those planes” in July and August of 2006 working at the behest of the Israeli government, and the Jews whom are citizens of Lebanon who had no connection with those attacks.

Lebanon rebuilt that Ground Zero Synagogue for its Jews.

Not for Israel. Not for the world’s Jewry. Not as a monument to mark a “Jewish victory” over Lebanon.

Lebanon rebuilt that Ground Zero Synagogue because its Jews lived in that neighborhood and they had every right to build a house of worship in a place they called home.

For crying out loud, Hassan Nassrallah and Hezbollah can even draw the distinction between a Lebanese Jew and an Israeli soldier who happens to be a Jew. So how is it that Americans can’t distinguish between American Muslims who were victims of 9/11 and Saudi Muslims who were the perpetrators of 9/11?

Thank you Mr. Gingrich for allowing Hassan Nasrallah and Hezbollah to outclass you and the Republican Party (and you Democrats aren't too far behind--yes Harry Reid, I'm talking to you). When the former Republican Speaker of the House and the current Democratic Senate Majority Leader start sounding less tolerant and less reasonable than a "terrorist," we need to start sounding the alarm bells.

What a sad state of affairs for America.

264 comments:

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Anonymous said...

Fantastic article. Beautifully written and really brings the point across. Would like to see this getting more exposure on the internet.

You should consider posting it as a Diary in the liberal blog "The Daily Kos." I expect it to be positively received, and it will definitely get noticed.

Gus Bridi said...

Thank you for your kind words! I'll look into posting the article at The Daily Kos per your suggestion.

Gus

Anonymous said...

wonderful article. You should also mention that non Jewish Lebanese have actually made finaicial ocntributions to rebuild the Synagogue

Bhebak YaLebnan said...

Dear Gus
Thank you for your article, but I guess that you missed some information.
Actually the synaguoge of Beirut was there since a long time ago, Jews of Lebanon are not building a new synagogue in Beirut, but they are renovating it. So I don't think that we have to expect the permission of Hassan Nasrallah or others to renovate it. It's their right and it's their identity of being Lebanese.
So in this way, we cannot compare ground zero's mosquee to the beirut synagogue, since that mosquee did not exist in the past !!
Just as a historical fact: A group of polish christians build a church and a convent with a big cross near Auschwitz camp to pray for the rest of all jews who died there. Jews felt that it was a provocation for them, and the Pope Jean Paul II himself ordered to move away the convent from the Aushwitz camp. Why? because he felt that it might irritate the jewish community there.
You don't think that building this BIG mosquee few meters from gound zero with a budget of millions of dollars will irritate the christians there? Of course they can build it some miles away, but I don't think that it is ethical to built it where they want to do; especially knowing all the background of 9/11.

Anonymous said...

I am sorry to say this paper is completely irrelevant. You compare what is not comparable
1/ the synagogue in Beirut has been there since the '20s of last century
2/ there is nothing provocative in it. Building a new one near Ansar's prison or at the location of Qana's massacres would have been provocative
3/ Obama made a precious statement : "Yes, it is legal, but is it wise ?"
4/ In a catholic country, Poland, the carmelite nuns built an abbey and a church next to Auschwitz concentration camp. Their aim was to pray for all victims. Jewish organization considered it pure provocation. Pope John Paul II decided to remove the cross and dismantle the abbey and the church and rebuild them somewhere else. He did that by due respect to the dead.
5/ therefore another location could be chosen for the mega-mosque. The aim should be to unite people and not to divide them. Such a project would only vivify racism and islamophobia.

samah said...

There are a few gaps and irrelevancies in the article, however I find it most appropriate to play the same game as idiots like Gingrich.

Anonymous said...

Bhebak ya Lebnan? U do really?
Read your post and allow me to say that u missing the point of the writer and you made it so apparent with your post that you are a closed minded Christian; The point of the article was not Nasrallah, it was in response to Newt and to showcase that Lebanon with all its crisis, loses, differences, wars and massacres committed by the Jewish state of Israel did not oppose re-constructing the Synagogue in the Beirut Central district. I feel sorry for you that you have missed the point and you went to comment on Nasrallah instead of being proud of your Lebanon that you pretending to love.

Same response to the Anonymous;

Didn't which to post Anonymously but this is the only option for none gmail users my email for any responses: sabaghziad@yahoo.com

Anonymous said...

Gus,

Nice post, however the connection you make to Lebanon and the U.S. is not relevant. Lebanon is building the synagogue because Jews have rights under the Lebanese constitution and are one of the 17 recognized sects in the country. So it makes Lebanon look good in the eyes of the world when they are at war with a "Jewish State" yet reconstruct a synagogue (yes, it had been there for decades).

It is all propaganda on their part. Let's hope the Ground Zero Mosque gets built somewhere else.

Anonymous said...

Ziad Sabagh,

"Closed minded Christian" you say?
Are you trying to prove that you're liberal and opened minded with that statement?

I suggest that whoever wants to turn Lebanon into Iran should just leave Lebanon and move to Iran once and for all.

Anonymous said...

Jews of Lebanon are part of the lebanese society mosaic the same way muslims are integral part of the american Society, regardless of where and when they were built.
As an Atheist i am not a big fan or religious spaces. however the campaign against the mosque is pure racism.
It would be a provocation to open an office for Al qaida in ground zero. but i don't understand and i don't see the relation between a mosque for Muslim american and 9/11, just because Al qaida people happened to be muslims ?
Georges Azzi

Gus Bridi said...

To respond to some of the posts...what part of "rebuilt" the synagogue was lost on you? I never claimed the synagogue was built anew, rather I state repeatedly that the synagogue was either "renovated" or "rebuilt." Please read more carefully.

Secondly, the Ground Zero Mosque in New York is simply an expansion of a mosque that had already been in the same neighborhood for 30 years in a building that had been left abandonned for 8 years. The so-called "sacred" grounds surrounding the New York Ground Zero is largely comprised of abandonned, dilapidated buildings and in some cases strip bars (as in "nude" bars). The building in question was purchased for pennies on the dollar and was available for anyone who believed those grounds to be hallowed to purchase it--no one did. Indeed there are many abandonned buildings that still remain there and which still remain run down and unpurchased and available for the same idiots who continue to complain about the "sanctity" of those grounds.

Thirdly, the Jewish Mayor of New York enthusiastically supports the expansion of the mosque.

Fourth the majority of Manhattenites are in favor of the mosque being built at that location.

How is this ANYONE else's business?

The Muslims seeking to expand their already existing mosque are Americans who resided in lower Manhatten FOR 30 YEARS and were victims of 9/11 in the same way their fellow non-Muslim Manhattenites were.

Though I thank you all for reading the article, I think some of you have entirely missed the point of it and don't quite understand what has occurred, and what is occurring in New York.

Gus

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for pointing out our good nature who no one sees or cares about. It is about time.

Gus Bridi said...

P.S. The Lebanese Constitution DOES NOT require the rebuilding of the synagogue at issue in this article (it's amusing how some of you enjoy pulling facts out of thin air). The synagogue was in fact rebuilt WITHOUT the use of public funds and ENTIRELY with private donations, much of which came from non-Jewish donors including the Hariri family.

Bassem Chit said...

It is completely astonishing that some Lebanese still manage to become utter racist biggots, even when some journalists, like the author of this article, is actually taking pride in Lebanese tolerance vis-a-vis the reconstruction of the Jewish synagogue.

Bhebak YaLibnan and Anonymous, the similarities between the story of the comparison between the reconstruction of the Synagogue and the building of the ground zero mosque is VERY VALID, because the issue here is an architectural matter but that of racism.

The American right wingers are attacking the mosque and american muslims as a whole and tagging them all as terrorists, which is by any means unacceptable, and should be fought against, the issue of people should be respecting the sentiments of the "christian" population in the US is absurd, because it was not the muslim community that did 9/11, it was rather made by a group of militants which are very well known, and should not by any means be considered as representative of the muslim community in the US.

Not allowing the mosque to be built is basically flirting with racism and xenophobia, and everyone who defends the ban on building the mosque is an utter xenophobic biggot, and do not start on tolerance or on respecting the feelings of the christian community, because the issue is not about christian and muslims it is about racism, the funder of the mosque is one of the owners of FOX news, and plus the mosque that everyone talks about is a prayer house, and has basketball courts and a community house, or are you saying that muslims all together should leave ground zero, if you are saying so this means you are condemning muslims to be behind the 9/11 attacks.

If we use the same logic you are employing than christians are responsible for the holocaust since Hitler was a christian!!!!

Grow up!

Yoda said...

Excellent article!!!

Re the 2 commenters who drew parallels between the Auscwitz convent and the Islamic cultural center:

This is not a valid comparison for 2 reasons: 1) the Auschwitz convent was built ON THE GROUNDS of where a tragedy occurred, whereas the cultural center is several blocks away; and 2) there is a big difference between establishing a convent (a religious structure housing the most devout of their faith) and setting up a community center which would be open to people of all faiths, colors, nationalities, and walks of life. The fact that a 13-story building HAPPENS TO include a few rooms for prayer does not make it a "mosque," nor in any way comparable to a convent.

Jay said...

You're actually trying to argue that the middle east is more tolerant of personal expression and freedom of religion than the U.S.A.? You need a reality check, or maybe just an encyclopedia.

Your overzealous description of the damage done to Lebanon does no justice to those people, they were not so obliterated as your rhetoric would make it seem.

In general, I agree with your point. But the froth at your mouth makes me wish you weren't on my side. You should try to maintain a higher standard of neutrality, because your very strong and obvious bias detracts from an otherwise valid point.

drew3000 said...

Bhebak YaLebnan is incorrect, as are many others who claim a mosque is being built at the location. A mosque is "a place built for the purpose of gathering for prayer and worship in Islam." The building that is going to be built near (not on) Ground Zero is an Islamic Community Center. It will include a room for prayer, but that is not a mosque, and is to be open to more than just Muslims.

So in this way you cannot say it is a mosque. It is not.

You can say that while people in Lebanon have had no problem with a synagogue existing at the heart of their own ground zero (or being renovated there), thousands of xenophobic, Islamophobic, racists and ignorant individuals in America are throwing a hissy fit over an Islamic community center (not a mosque, but so what if it was?) which has nothing to do with the attacks of September 11, 2001, even though they are desparate to create a link to justify their fear, hatred and blunt stupidity.

In this way you can say these things. Yes, in this way...

Anonymous said...

@jay
I'm sorry you cringe at someone who shows some passion for an important issue. Maybe the problem with america is not that it's ignorant but it's full of fence sitters who are afraid to take a stand on anything. If it weren't for people "with froth on their mouth" as you say, you'd probably be dead.

Anonymous said...

You eagerly multiply Lebanese casualties, painting Israel poorly. How about Iraqi civilian casualties? Over a million? Without any multiplication to account for total population. What is the ratio there?

Kevin Harris said...

@Bhebak YaLebnan + Anonymous

You claim the the author of the article is making incompatible comparisons between the situation in Lebanon and Manhattan. Yet both of you just compared 9/11 to the Holocaust. Really guys? Really? Godwin's to the rescue.

Anonymous said...

@Jay. What happened in lebanon is exactly how he describes it. It was the slaughter of innocent civilians, and if that wasn't enough they destroyed hospitals and other essentials as mentioned in the article. Your mindset is pathetic, please do us all a favor and don't have kids.

Anonymous said...

@Anon commenting about "eagerly multiply casualties."

His intention in multiplying the casualties was to make a comparison, not to make it seem worse or to demonize Israel. Also he was in no way trying to excuse the United States in its wars, I could say almost without a doubt he's opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Obviously you're bias is strongly for Israel, but when confronted with the facts I see them as impossible to defend.

Anonymous said...

By Bhebak YaLebnan:

I would prefer that some answers could be more polite, and thank you Gus for your very polite comment.
We are talking about tolerance. Some comments showed a low level of tolerance, and showed a lot of racism. (by the way i am not even christian, i am Lebanese).
I would prefer more tolerance in our comments and base our answers on facts, history, politics...
I really appreciated all the other comments. It shows how, we, lebanese people can discuss a subject in a civilized way.
I don't want to discuss the subject here.
I want to talk to you, lebanese people who are commenting and who are caring about our tolerance. We need to work on it, to spread it around us. I don't know how exactly, but we have to to think about it. You've all seen what happened in Burj abi Haydar few days ago. Is it acceptable?
As civilized citizens, educated people, can we accept that some people (independantly from which party or community they are coming) can burn a city and remember us the civil war again ?
I don't know if we can help our country to make it safe and secure for us and for our children.
And the most important thing, WE HAVE TO STAY HERE IN LEBANON and WE WILL NOT LEAVE THE COUNTRY FOR STUPIDS, IDIOTS AND BERBER.

Jana said...

AWESOME ARTICLE!

Anonymous said...

@Bassem Chit:

It is completely astonishing that some on here still manage to become utter religious bigots. You and the author need to slow your rhetoric. Reconstruction and rebuilt makes it sound as if the structure was destroyed when in fact it was not. When you remodel your house do you refer to it as being 'rebuilt'? I didn't think so. The similarities are NOT valid, but in your liberal mindset they must be so. Oh, and being a Muslim is not the same as being part of a race so your little racism rant is moot. No one is attacking the Islamic faith as a whole, they're just saying that it's intolerant and insensitive to put the mosque there. The very fact that people are saying this makes it a valid point. Not listening to what a majority of the people want is flirting with bigotry and you know it. Why do you hate Christianity so much?

Grow up!

Anonymous said...

America has historically been a place for people to escape religious persecution. So the stupidity in what Newt Gingrich is saying is in waiting for SAUDI ARABIA (where women still can't even drive a car) to be tolerant before we act like we are supposed to act in the first place.The problem with your article are the comparisons. The 9/11 attacks were perpetrated by Islamic terrorists and the systematic Israeli war machine is not carried out in the name of Judiasm. That's the difference. I lived in the Middle East for 20 years and consider it to be my home but tolerance towards Jews? Lebanese are accepting of all religions? That's just comical.

Anonymous said...

What ground zero needs is a communal prayer center. A grand cathedral, mosque, synagogue, and other faith center. Each a separate building for worship yet all sharing all other common areas (garden, library, parking, park, etc.) with a community center at it's heart. Something that could really promote healing and cooperation.

Anonymous said...

you should forward this article to the random media stations in america...

Gus Bridi said...

I am quite astonished by how many people have missed the point of this article. The point of this article is NOT that the Lebanese are a religiously tolerant people. My point is that this country which has been mired in a Civil War for decades over religion, "tolerated" the building of a synagogue in the middle of a downtown that was bombed to hell and back by Israel on several occassions.

My much larger point was that the United States, which waxes on about "religious freedoms" can't "tolerate" a "mosque" built by Americans in a neighborhood those same Americans occuppied for 30 years.

You don't see the irony in any of this? It doesn't strike you as odd that a country entangled in decades of Civil War over religion can "tolerate" a synagogue, while a country who pats itself on the back ad nauseum over the First Amendment can't "tolerate" a mosque (which isn't even a mosque, but a community center)?

Do you honestly think this article was about religious freedom in Lebanon? Are you really so blind as to not see the very obvious lunacy you are conveying when you are decrying the religious intolerance in Lebanon while ignoring the rather obvious religious intolerance displayed in the literal shadows of the Statue of Liberty which advertises, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."?

Just another example of America, being America. The "were not as bad as they are" argument is always fresh off the lips of people who have run out of ideas to explain why we're running out of freedom.

Gus

Lara Husseiny said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lara Husseiny said...

Amazing and well put article... so many pple did miss the point and its sad!!! Its the focus point that they miss and deviate into what they want to truly say.... and of course stay anonymous!!! U have something to say ur protected by the 1st amendment so why be anonymous? VERY EXTREMELY WELL PUT ARTICLE! Thank u and you definately earned a fan! :)

Imane said...

Great Article!!! 3anjad :)

Gus Bridi said...

Thank you Lara! I always appreciate new fans :)

Gus

Ravi said...

This was really informative! Excellent post

carlo sirini said...

Newt is just a mouth piece for his pay masters . One shouldnt worry about such has-beens but worry about those behind the scenes who churn out this maltious disinformation.

Anonymous said...

I think your article was very well-reasoned and very well-written.

I have only two quibbles I feel compelled to point out. First, I think you are a bit overly idealistic about Lebanese attitudes towards Jews. I fear that being Jewish in Beirut, going to the new synagogue, etc. is not the non-issue you imply it is.

Second, you have every right to write: "regardless of whether you perceive Israel to be justified in perpetrating the devastation it did on Lebanon is irrelevant. The purpose of this article is not to debate that." Except that the language leading up this declaration was very biased against Israel, only expressing the Lebanese point of view (e.g. "as Israel does" or similar such language). Your point would have been stronger had you been more objective about Israel's conflict with its Arab neighbors who have spent more than 60 years seeking its destruction (see, there are two sides to the issue).

Anonymous said...

All your blog does is highlight your own ignorance on the matter.

Fact: Americans who opposed the "ground zero mosque" because of its proximity to Ground Zero are intolerant and ignorant. Building this mosque/cultural center should not be viewed as a provocation simply because Muslim terrorists were responsible for 9/11 attacks. Instead, it should be recognized that there are elements of EVERY religious group that demonstrate intolerance towards others, some violently. There are Christian terrorists, Jewish terrorists, and Muslim terrorists as well.

Unfortunately, you greatly misrepresented Israel's actions in Lebanon which represents your own bias and ignorance on the matter. If you recall, in 2006, Hezbollah engaged in an act of war by attacking and killing Israeli soldiers on Israeli soil. Hezbollah is part of the political arm of Lebanon, and thus Hezbollah's actions are legitimately attributed to Lebanon. And Hezbollah did not stand by idly as Israel attacked, Hezbollah indiscriminately fired rockets all across the Northern part of Israel with intent to kill.

If you want to make an educational point, keep it educational. Dont spread pointless propaganda, that further inflames a debate that is centered around ignorance and intolerance.

Anonymous said...

This paper is really ZERO. Ghassan (GUS! LOL!) and George Azzi should use their brain if they have one.

Gus Bridi said...

Do you really want to engage in a debate as to whether a 30 year old border skirmish which involved casualties on BOTH sides (far more Lebanese than Israelis) in which 3 IDF soldiers were killed or captured in one instant in time over the 30 year span of that skirmish warranted the reaction Israel exacted on Lebanon in July of 2006?

Because I'd be delighted to write an article on precisely that issue. But that wasn't the point of this article. My apologies for pointing out the obvious--but like it or not--the IDF DID destroy Lebanon. Like it or not Israel violates Lebanon's sovereignty DAILY. The clock did not start ticking on this conflict when Hezbollah fired its rockets in July 2006. Which isn't to say I condone Hezbollah's decisions to engage Israel, but to paint Israel the "victim" here is absurd. Sorry, you're not going to get anywhere with me on that point.


Too, I am under no delusion that Judaism is celebrated in Beirut. I've been to Beirut on several occassions. I am aware of this. Thank you for the lesson on Lebanese religious tolerance.

This article was DESIGNED to be provacative.

It should trouble you that a statement which came from Hezbollah sounded like a statement from a First Amendment lawyer, while the statements coming out of Newt Gingrich's mouth (and more shockingly) Harry Reid's mouth sounded like they were coming out of the mouth of Hassan Nasrallah.

That was the POINT of the article. Hassan Nasrallah is not being advertised here to be Martin Luther King. What should shock you and nauseate you and unequivocally revolt you is that the Democratic Senate Majority Leader of the United States and the former Republican Speaker of the House of the United States came off sounding like they were advocating on behalf of the "party of God" whilst the leader of Hezbollah, in one brief statement, sounded like an AMERICAN.

I know what Hezbollah is. I know who Hassan Nasrallah is. I know the tolerance level of Lebanese. Thank you all for the lesson on those issues. Now re-read the article and try to conceive of a scenario in which Nasrallah said what he said and Gingrich and Reid said what they said which doesn't involve Rod Serling and the Twilight Zone.

Gus

saweet said...

Yet again, excellent article. Well-written and factual. Will be using this (as I have many of your articles) again in my lectures.

Anonymous said...

You said: This article was DESIGNED to be provacative.

So I think you probably need to not be so defensive when you provoke opinions that don't agree with yours.

That said, I quite liked the article. Think it could have been better if you'd attempted to be slightly less biassed. It would have made the point stronger and clearer in my opinion. Those that didn't like it and posted their reasons actually gave me a more rounded view on the whole subject - you all have presented arugments with elements of bias. I don't see why people have to be so inflammatory about that fact. Because the original article wasn't completely neutral, it is only by hearing arguments from both sides of the debate that one can try to make an informed opinion for themselves, instead of being spoon fed the belief of one person.

Gus Bridi said...

Touche! :)

Anonymous said...

superb article. certainly shared it on facebook with other friends. as stated before, this really brings the point across. regards

Anonymous said...

And finally we are showing just how stupid our right is, one day we'll all wake up and realize that the four remaining mega-corps have taken all our liberties while keeping us distracted with silly little controversies. I hope that there is enough common sense to see the corperate control of the de-regulating right...

Anonymous said...

P.S. it's not a mega mosque, it has a small mosque and a 9/11 memorial room, and it's THREE sodding new york city blocks away, that's quite a distance i know cause i walked it.

Anonymous said...

Not so much outclassed but a clear cut example of the difference between freedom and property rights and the result of a century of progressive movement towards a total state here in the USA. The total state needs enemies to justify its existence and keep people from seeing that their real enemy is the state itself.

Ivory Tower said...

Great, they're renovating a synagogue in Beirut? They might as well be refurbishing a MUSEUM. As you mention, there are no Jews left in Lebanon to enjoy it.

If Nasrallah had it his way, there would be no Jews in Israel either and all those synagogues could be museums too.

So please, stop lecturing America. America has a growing and vibrant Muslim population. Lebanon's Jewish population is all but extinct.

Anonymous said...

When asked if any donations would be received from Iran & Saudi Arabia to build the mosque, the correct response should have been "No, never". Unfortunately, it was "We'll look at all available options within the United States to start."

And then you have other "supporters" coming on TV and refusing to acknowledge Hamas as a terrorist organization. This is not the way to calm Islamophobia.

The Lebanon synagogue has already been there for an extremely long time before any of the 2006 events you used happened. It was not built there after the fact, and furthermore, was not funded by terrorist organizations.

Anonymous said...

Hello to all,

We have to educate ourselves as best possible before we post. Many people are posting without having their facts straight.

There is NO mosque being rebuilt there. It's not even a mosque to begin with. It is a poor quality community center whose members wish for it to look more like YMCA!!! What is so offensive about YMCA??? Especially a YMCA that also has a room for 9/11 memorial???

Let's NOT forget, Muslims also DIED on 9/11.

This is AMERICA the land of the FREE. Let's not change our land. Let's not deprive our children of the same freedoms and securities we've enjoyed. We must think about the 'long-term' affects of such demonstrations and expression of hatred against any group of people. If we make the innocent Muslim communities feel unwelcome/unwanted/disowned and judge against the whole of them for the actions of a few power hungry backward evil men, what will our country look like 20-30 years from now?????

Let's protect our land and the Muslim Americans from turning America into France and UK or worse!!! It's their country too. So, let's stand together as one.

Gus Bridi said...

So Saudis aren't allowed to contribute to the community center located at Ground Zero?

Try googling "Prince Alwaleed bin Talal."

Do you know who he is?

He's the second-largest shareholder in News Corp., the parent company of the Fox News Channel.


Let me propose the following as a compromise: Let's agree to dismantle the Ground Zero "Mosque" in exchange for dismantling the Fox News Channel. We'll call it the "What's Good for the Goose is Good for the Gander Compromise."

No Saudi money at Ground Zero, in exchange for no Saudi money funding Fox News.

Do we have a deal?

Matt said...

Gus,

Your article was very nicely done.
It is difficult to understand why so many people are willing to accept as fact the things that are propagated to instill fear by the neoconservative warmongers in Washington.

Cheers,

Matt

Anonymous said...

Well said, Brother!

-Nadeem

Anonymous said...

@Bassem Chit

hitler was not christian. at least, he wasn't when he did the holocaust.

Anonymous said...

First issue is our media. It Plays on peoples ignorance. This is not a mosque, its a Muslim community center. However that said, even though 9/11 attack does not represent Islam as whole, the fact is, it was done in the name of Islam. It was not in the name of Buddhism or Hinduism it was Islam. Now that said, people are making a big deal out of the Muslim community center, but if the imam who wants to build it says he wants to mend bridges between Muslims and non Muslims...logically speaking the first thing would be done is not piss anyone off. The truth is people in America are wounded emotionally with 9/11 and feel very strongly about it. So does the community centre absolutely have to be so close to ground zero. I know, it’s actually 2 blocks away. But can it be in more central Manhattan. The reality is, this imam says he wants to create peace between people, but his actions are speaking otherwise.
As for the blog Gus, he is Cleary anti-israel and he has no reason to be. In fact no one does. Israel was created as a state just like Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran , Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Labia etc. All those countries where created by the west after WWI, none of them existed before that. If anyone of those countries have the right to exist so does Israel. Unfortunately, for reasons unknown, they hate Israel and want to destroy it. Fortunately, none of these countries could destroy and kill all the Jews from the 6 or 7 wars that they tried to start with Israel. Had they managed to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews, would that be ok then? Even though I agree Israel was harsh on its enemies, the reality is none of its enemies would suffer if they just left Israel alone from day one.

Gus Bridi said...

You ever feel like you're arguing with a bag of hammers?

Anonymous said...

Wonderful article, Gus!

Anonymous said...

@Gus

Your syntax and usage errors tell me enough about your intelligence to know that you ARE a bag of hammers. Someday you'll grow up and realize the real world isn't the rosy picture you'd like to paint; there are many shades of gray that you refuse to see.

TL;DR: Hate on hata.

Rick Fisk said...

This is a superb article. To answer one of the posters here:

"You're actually trying to argue that the middle east is more tolerant of personal expression and freedom of religion than the U.S.A.? "

As a matter of fact it is. There isn't any need at all to argue about it because it has been this way for a VERY long time.

Gus, just terrific.

You're right to point the blame at Newt because this entire "Sharia law" hysteria is totally his.

http://demidog.blogspot.com/2010/08/empire-tries-to-strike-back.html

Gus Bridi said...

I am still trying to grasp how describing Lebanon being blown to bits by the IDF as painting a "rosy" picture.

Yes, my idea of utopia. Cotton candy, bunny rabbits, and cluster bombs. I'm getting all warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.

Have you ever been on the ground when a 1000 pound bomb explodes in an urban area? Ever seen a barrage of cluster bombs? Ever see what phosphorus bombs do to human flesh?

Yes, quite a rosy picture indeed.

Matt Flipago said...

Nice Article.
To those who think the 60 years of war in Lebonon makes the situation different, consider the decades America has affecting Middle East gov't for it's own benifit. Propping up dictators, and numerous bombings.

To all who oppose the "mosque" and are Christian whatever happened to turn the other cheek(even though they aren't the same mulsims).
And for every one who thinks the ground is sacred, well those mulsims believe it has value too, so why don't you do the only non violent method, the only libertarain, christian, and humane option to get them to not build there, put your money where you claim your heart is at, and pay them to move it another 2-3 blocks or more. Stop being thugish and irrational by saying we live in a nation of laws and throw them out the window when you don't like them. IF you can't raise enough money to get them to move more blocks away, then clearly you don't care enough.

Anonymous said...

Awesome post, well done!

That you had to write such things and "do you hear that?" within the text suggests you knew all too well that some people have 'selective hearing'...

Even when soundly slappped about the chops with indisputable facts, then poked in the eye with their own argumentative points, they still refuse to hear any truth that counters such deep bigotry.

You cannot change their minds, for you would need to do just that, to literally change their brains.

The fact remains though, this is a powerful post, raising some incredible points. It needs a lot more exposure, where it can reach people not yet too deeply affected infected with this bigotry.

Anonymous said...

Not to degrade your article, but it's actually pock marked not pot marked.

Anonymous said...

The article brings out a point that every American has had to deal with but there is only one true flaw in the argument, the size of the countries. As was written Lebanon is not all that big, and for that reason there is less of an opportunity, dare I say, for someone to oppose what is being told to them. There are over 300 Million Americans how long do you think it would take to get the point to all of them? It could be a lifetime and there would still be some doubt, that is just the way Americans think nowadays. Also I find it a little harsh to say that ALL Americans are on the same mindset of Muslims being the target, not everyone is stuck in the 50's. Time cures all that's all there is to it, forty years for Lebanon could be centuries or even a few millenniums of time. Only time will tell, and time is one thing that no human being has.

Anonymous said...

I personally think build this mosque is a bad NO NO!!!
Let me ask you one question?
Why is that when a christian builds a church in the middle east, a muslim has to build a bigger mosque beside it?
Building this mosque, subsiding from the fact that it is very offensive to all religious communities and families who have lost their loved ones in the 9/11 attacks; why not built a bigger church right next to it or even bigger jewish temple. Would you think its more fair than?
I do not think that muslims first of all need to built that big of a mosque and if they had any sense of respect they would built that mosque else where.
All religious groups have no problem with mosque being built across the country, it's the fact that it is being build where the attacks happen.
I think if they built this mosque another war will break through and i do not think that anyone wants that to happen.
As for the person who wrote this article you are being completely bias and i think you should gain more knownledge before publishing such a piece.

Anonymous said...

Good article with loads of holes&very bias. However, I do understand your point on right-wing United States "politics" & Israel's thrist for muslim blood.

United States' extreme christian groups have always been fighting what they believe are the 'devil'. From native Americans to pagen witches to socialists and now the old enemy from the Crusades, the muslims.

By giving ALL muslims the label of 'terrorlists' allows right-wing United States to justify illegal wars in order to gain prolong the glory of an arrogant nation&give more access&control over black gold, oil, & the international drugs trade. Both the most profitable businesses in the world.

Christianity like Islam&Judism teaches to love each other. However the United States&Israel appear to use holy war as a way to expand their lands, gain power&control over both their own population with their glory and of course, gain profits.

Matt said...

“If you hate Muslims because Muslim Terrorists attacked America, of that you are focusing on the wrong word.”

Not my words, but I stand by them 100%.

Anonymous said...

i think the main difference in this example is a clear enemy for the Lebanese in the shape of Israel as a state rather than Jewish people everywhere because the focus is on states here. the problem for america was by declaring a war on non-state actors with the war on terror the division of who "deserves" what is blurred causing some people to define who is against them badly.
still, some interesting points there. thanks for letting us know

Rania Saleh said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rania Saleh said...

Good Article!

I feel sympathy for the American Muslim community who are behind building this mosque or who are defending the location of this mosque. I can't believe that they intended to provke other American citizens who lost their loves ones in 9/11 attacks. The problem now is that this "mosque" turns to be a provactive site examines to what extent American Muslims have been "melted" in society.

Anonymous said...

Muslims are taught to live by the sword. I do not think they have any sense of peace within them. Let's leave this matter for a minute because people are focusing way to much on 9/11. What about all the other terrible things muslim people have done. I will not be judging them as a whole because there are extremist from all regilions but i will be judging them based on their actions. And so far from what i've seen, there has'nt been one muslim to prove me wrong.

Anonymous said...

Great article, Gus!! Keep up the great work.

I'm actually not surprised that most of our fellow Americans totally missed the point of the article; these are all the same people that think they are Patriotic and upholding the Constitution when they protest a religious center in a city they don't live in and will never visit.
:D

Dina Gharbo said...

This article was EXTREMELY well written! Finally a bit of perspective on how ridiculous these hypocritical outbursts of so-called American pride against the community center are. In a country that's leading in education, power and gloating its incomparable freedom in everyone's faces, it's really sad to see their own ignorance and nature to discriminate take over the public against a significant population of their own people.

And excellent point to bring up Saudi contributions to Fox. Or here's an idea. Why not boycott Saudi products all together to begin with? Including the near 500,000 barrels of oil per year the US imports from Saudi alone.

Really, really excellent article and very good comparison. The way you placed the role of faith in the midst of the destruction that happened in both Lebanon and 9/11 is something America needs to take a second look at.

Mr Director Chair said...

Interesting article and strong comparison in some places.

HOWEVER, forget not that the synagogue was ALREADY there and no one complained about it's existence, for years.

Forget not, that Lebanon had a strong Jewish community before the war... and it went down to few that you can count on your fingers.

Forget not, that they can't announce their faith publicly and can't have the same rights or ambitions that other sects has.

America on the other hand has a muslim-born President.

the way I see it, Jewish community in Lebanon is not in a better shape than it once was.

so your way of comparing the renovation of a synagogue to the building of a 13-th floor mosque is unfortunately, invalid.

Anonymous said...

Great article in many (most) ways. I agree 100% with the sentiments you expressed.

However, I do wish you had used a spell-checker, and been more careful grammatically. Nothing in Beirut was "pot marked" (it was pockmarked), and "haphazzard" isn't a word.

Anonymous said...

Dear Gus,

Thank you, thank you, thank you.....
Finally a superb written article.
I'm a dutch/lebanese woman living in Holland. I try daily to bring some common sense and historical perspective to western people... and this artcle is a great help!
And to those who question the facts regarding Israel waging war on Libanon... don't!! Figures are NOT exaggerated.
Gus, you talked about the 2006 war... I'm old enough to have gone through the Lebanese civil war and the massacres committed there. Including Israel's part in that war. Carved in my memory is the date 5-6-1982. The day Israel invaded Lebanon AND the day my first child was born. I gave birth while Israeli jets were bombing the living hell out of the population. I will never forget that. BUT... I am tolerant and live in peace with others.. I don't hate or wish anyone doom. And yes I am PROUD to be a lebanese and to know that a synagogue is being rebuilt on the remains of war and victims.
The American & Western people who demonize Islam and preach so much hatred should be ashamed of themselves. Yes... a small arab country riddled with loss, pain and problems is big enough to be an example of unity and forgiveness.
God bless you Gus and keep up the good work!!I do every day... I wont stop bringing reason to others and every extra enlightened soul is worth the trouble :))

Amal

Anonymous said...

@ Gus

Yes, I have been there. I am in the US military. I'll bet a pretty penny that you have not witnessed any of this firsthand.

Anonymous said...

I think the comparison between the terrorists on 9/11 and the IDF is a bit flawed... The terrorists killed in the name of Allah and Islam. The IDF did not kill in the name of Judaism, they did what they did in the name of Israel. I understamd the connection between Judaism and Israel, but let's not use them synonomously. You even point out that Hassan Nasrallah does not equate the two. Now, I do not believe he would be as receptive to flying an Israeli flag at the site of their "Ground Zero," and based on your quotes, I would assume that you don't either. The difference that I've highlighted here is the key: What did the two groups kill for? The terrorist killed for Islam, not for Saudy Arabia or Afghanistan. That's why the idea of a Mosque being built there offends people. It's not the same thing. By your logic, should Americans be receptive to flying a Japanese flag at Pearl Harbor? Or how about the French flying a German flag in Paris? I'll even go your route and paint America as the bad guy. Let's put up an American Flag in Nagasaki. I'm sure they'd be okay with that.

Gus Bridi said...

Well, German flags do fly in Paris and Japanese flags do fly in Hawaii and American flags fly all over Iraq and Israeli flags all ocer the West Bank. You might try travelling some time--you will see a wonderous world of flags in ironic locations.

To the "hooked on phonics police": I admit to suffering from a vulcan mind melt on the "pot mark" (as opposed to "pock mark") issue and commend you on the catch--that was a righteous criticism. However "haphazard" is indeed a word meaning "careless or slipshod" according to the World English Dictionary. As is in "your haphazard criticism of my spelling is pockmarked by errors--now get off my ass so that we can talk about the real issues presented in this article."

Chad said...

1. It is an ISLAMIC CENTER that is part of an existing Mosque. So those saying it is a new mosque are wrong.

2. Anonymous said " Lebanon is building the synagogue because Jews have rights under the Lebanese constitution"

Does the US Bill of Rights not guarantee no interferance from the government in regards to religion?

Anonymous said...

Nice article. How about this analogy for some who still don't get it? A so-called "Christian" bombs an abortion clinic. Later on a Christian church, of no relation to the bomber, wants to build a new church building across the street from the clinic. Should they be banned from doing so because one nut-job practicing what is not real Christianity used the name of their religion in his act?

Some muslims are bad. This does not make Islam itself bad. I think some people truly believe that Islam teaches people to do these things. I think there are bad sects of Islam, just like there are bad sects of Christianity (KKK for instance). We can't hate on an entire religion because be hate the actions of some of its constituents.

Anonymous said...

Look, the building of a mosque is a NON ISSUE. This debate is being created by the ROCKEFELLER FOUNDATION in pursuit of a divided America. They want to stir up animosity and hate towards muslims. GO READ THE ARTICLE ON FUTUREDATABANK.COM entitled

"THE GROUND ZERO MOSQUE"

*** FUTUREDATABANK.COM ***

Anonymous said...

Go LISTEN To THIS INTERVIEW!...

America's Collapsing Economy

Anonymous said...

To your point of Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal being the second largest owner of NewsCorp: this second largest percentage is 7% of the company, and this is because he owns an investment company which invests in thousands of other companies as well. And this means (in case you're not getting the point), the other 93% is not owned by him.

And I only mentioned the Saudi donations because you made it a point to say that these are Muslim-Americans with no ties to Saudi Arabia, etc. You may feel that way. However, the people that are actually planning to build the Mosque, don't.

Regardless, the whole issue here is not whether a Mosque can be built there, because yes it is within right, but whether it should. It is within my right to do many things that would be offensive to others and this is why I don't do it. This mosque/community center does not NEED to be built in that location. It would serve the same purpose anywhere else. And the person that was asked "Why?, Why? there"? answered that it would serve as a bridge for the community and alleviate Islamophobia. 5 minutes later, he would not call Hamas a terrorist organization.

Gus Bridi said...

And his calling or not calling Hamas a terrorist organization effects your life in New York how?

I wrote a detailed piece on Imam Rauf:

http://www.zeropartypolitics.com/2010/08/ground-zero-mosque-hysteria-americans.html

His comments are routinely taken out of context to placate the whims of an angry American mob who more often than not have no idea what they're angry about.

The Pope didn't call Hamas terrorists either and condemned both Hamas and Israel for the violence they BOTH were parties to.

You want to take down the Vatican now, or is your ire simply reserved for BROWN people with funny hats and beards?

(Personally, I can never get past the funny hats and beards to notice skin color, but I do suffer from a bit of ADD).

Anonymous said...

GREAT ARTICLE!

Anonymous said...

@ Gus

It is 'vulcan mind meld' not 'melt'. No wonder your 'reporting' is so terrible. As for Hooked on Phonics, use it. Derp.

Anonymous said...

OF COURSE THEY WOULDNT MIND BUILDING IT. THIS IS BECAUSE IT POSES AN EASIER TARGET TO ELIMINATE ONCE ALL OF THE JEWS ARE IN WORSHIP AT THE SYNAGOGE HEZBOLLA WILL CHOOSE TO BLOW IT UP AND CALL IT A SUCCESSFUL MISSION.

Anonymous said...

(this is he same anonymous who posted the comment on August 27, 2010 at 6:39 AM)

Thank you for highlighting the fact that I have not travelled. We aren't all attorneys, Gus (insert joke about overpaid lawyers here).

But to take one from your book, you missed the point of my comment! I expected better of you. If you're going to argue against my post, please do so. Address the real point of my comment, and not the fact that I have yet to travel to the places I mentioned.

Anonymous said...

Why did they originally want to call it the Cordoba Center but later changed it to Park51? Is there something significant about Cordoba?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at August 27, 2010 12:05 PM, two words:

Not. Helping.

Anonymous said...

Sure, after years and years of constant destruction and rebuilding, I could see where it might behoove them to compromise. That's nice for them.

Part of the Muslim intention in war is to build their crap on "conquered ground" to visualize their "victory." I'll not back an illegal religion that is more than politically driven to execute "infidels," rape and kill wives and women and break other laws this country holds dear.

People are always crying "political incorrectness," well, now it's my turn. This is more than politically incorrect.

This issue is just another thing that is breaking down America.

In the interests of peace and respect, build the mosque elsewhere!

Anonymous said...

To the Americans, including myself, the Constitution of this country says nothing about sensitivity to past experiences instead it states quite obviously.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

If you think otherwise you are wrong.

kathleen said...

Thank you Gus for the article and for the point. What people also fail to say is that Muslims are being accosted for building a Mosque or community as far away as in Temecula,California, Tennessee and Ohio. It is blatant bigotry of the kind that 19 men acted out as Islamic heretics and took out their bigotry and hate against innocent people who had nothing to do with events they were mad about; like what was happening to people in Palestine and US bases being built in Saudi Arabia. And among those innocent people who died in the towers or lived in Manhattan where everyone was affected by the collapse of those buildings,were Muslims too who suffered along with all the other New Yorkers and Americans.They suffered more because they were blamed for something they neither did or condoned. So if the bigots who want to blame innocent people for something those heretics did and continue to hold all Muslims responsible for that huge tragedy;they are mimicking those terrorists and don't deserve to be Americans. Freedom of religions is the FIRST AMMENDMENT.

Gus Bridi said...

Dear "Anonymous August 27, 2010 12:05 PM" (Can I Call you Bob?)

Dear Bob,

...you just passed the nerd test. Live long and prosper.

Sorry boys, it's Friday, and if you don't find that amusing, then you don't have a sense of humor, and not even a synagogue in Lebanon can cure you.

(al... Vulcan mind "meld" mish "melt" al...)

What else? Another "Anonymous" seems to have an issue with the Trade Center towers going down in the name of Islam, while all of Lebanon came down in the name of Israel rather than Judaism, therefore it's okay to ban mosques in New York... okay... I don't get the logic... other than Israel is a Jewish state when it's convenient for Israel to be a Jewish state, but when it's not convenient for it to be Jewish it's just another state... except when you say it's just another state, in which case you're anti-semetic because you don't see it as a Jewish state...so you say, "okay you're a Jewish state"...and then you're anti-semetic again for saying it's a "Jewish" state...and then you build a synagogue in an Arab city... but you're anti-semetic anyways because you did it for publicity... but if you didn't do it, you'd be anti-semetic because you didn't even have the "balls" just to do it for publicity...

and then you can't build a mosque in New York, because it's too close to something Arabs blew up, but you can't build one in Kentucky because it's too American to build something Islamic at the birthplace of Jack Daniels...

Look...IDIOTS...WILL YOU GIVE THESE PEOPLE A FRIGGIN' BREAK?!?!?

Honest to God, sometimes I just want to bang my head against the wall and look up to the sky and yell... "WHAT THE FUCK IS IT YOU WANT FROM THESE PEOPLE, AND IF YOU GET IT, WILL YOU SHUT UP AND LET ME GET SOME PEACE AND QUIET?!?!?"

Okay...rant over.

Anonymous said...

Some dullard in this thread said that the opposition to the ground zero mosque is "pure racism" What race is being oppressed and labelled inferior here? Morons need to learn the definition of words like racsim before they follow the herd and start fallaciously labeling everything.

Gus Bridi said...

I totally see your point. Most Muslims are as white as Wonderbread. Racism has nothing to do with this. Effing dullards!

Gus Bridi said...

The brown Bangladeshi cab driver from New York that got his throat cut from some white guy...TOTAL COINCIDENCE!!!! This has nothing to do with racism!!!

Suad said...

You said it once, you said it all. Bravo. Your article is the best I've read so far about this issue because you're tackling it from a factual perspective and not only a moral, idealistic one. I posted your article on Facebook after a friend posted it, many of my friends reposted it and I've made it my Facebook status which I'm updating on a daily basis because EVERY single person should read what you wrote. Kudos, and thank you Gus for the power of your words!

Suad said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

@ Gus

The man didn't have his throat cut.

Islam/Muslim is not a race.

You cannot spel gud nd r using worrds n-corectly durrrr.

And when someone offers you constructive criticism you flip out and curse...like a bitch. No wonder people in the SFV think your law firm is a big joke, Ghassan.

Gus Bridi said...

Ok... so Muslims aren't a race. Vulcans meld minds. And you can't handle the "f" word.

What else?

Do you have an opinion on R2-D2 you want to share with us as well?

(Did I spell R2-D2 correctly?)

Gus Bridi said...

And thank you Suad for your comments. My apologies to all for getting sidetracked with some of the other comments made here.

Anonymous said...

@ Gus

Why yes, I do have a comment.

From the AP:


The US warned Lebanon that if it did not prevent any recurrence of the border-fire incident that occurred earlier this month, the IDF would destroy the Lebanese Armed Forces within four hours, Israel Radio cited a report by Lebanese newspaper A-Liwaa on Friday.

According to the report, Frederick Hoff, assistant to US Middle East Peace Envoy George Mitchell, told Lebanese Army chief of staff Jean Kahwaji that Israel was ready to implement a plan to destroy within four hours all Lebanese military infrastructure, including army bases and offices, should a similar confrontation occur in the future.

IDF Lt.-Col. (res.) Dov Harari, 45, was killed and Capt. (res.) Ezra Lakia was seriously wounded, as well three LAF soldiers and one Lebanese journalist killed, when both sides exchanged fire after IDF soldiers attempted to cut down a tree on the Israeli side of the border.

In four hours the LAF (fitting, I know) will be destroyed if they keep up their unprovoked attacks. Why do you support unprovoked violence on an innocent nation Mr. Gus? Are you from Lebanon or of Lebanese descent? Because if you were/are then I could understand in greater detail why you post in such a one sided manner. You call your blog "Zero Party Politics" when in fact you're so slanted towards the left you look like a big ole obtuse triangle.

Just my dos centavos, pardner.

Anonymous said...

And what do I want from these people? To leave each other the hell alone. Stop fighting. I want the US to deal with US matters. I'm tired of being the police o' the world. I've deployed to over 39 countries since I graduated college. I've put my life on hold. It's my choice, this is true but it is time to put America first. I'm pretty far to the right, as I'm sure you can tell. You might be surprised to know that I'm for the mosque being built; part of the document I've sworn to give my life for lays out that fact. I do think it's insensitive and intolerant of a majority of Americans' feelings but I guess that is an argument that only the left gets to use. I'm basically tired of the hypocrisy on BOTH sides of the fence. I'm tired of my brothers in arms dying for some shit heel country that couldn't care less. I'm tired of politicians lying to us all the time and not doing their jobs as stewards of our tax dollars and our nation. I'm tired of the left pushing us toward a more European model of 'civilization'. I guess I'm just tired, so I'd better hit the sack. Sorry for being an ass earlier. It's been a long day.

ImadK said...

Re: remarks that Israel does not wage for for Judaism, but the terrorists waged war in the name if Islam, that not all that true, isn't it? These terrorists, if you were listening the the tapes of Osama bin Laden, were not fighting for Islam per se, but because of the US bases in Saudi Arabia, because of the US's millitary support for Israel and because of the US sanctions program in Iraq that killed over half a million people. And they do claim to speak for all the Muslims in the world, regardless of whether most of them would agree to that.

And also related to this, Israel DOES in fact claim to speak for ALL the Jews in the world. Can you deny this?

Anonymous said...

I loved the article and enjoying the comments....
To whoever claimed that the Jewish population in Lebanon is extinct...well hun, you need a reality check...they are here and they are here big time...and we love them just like we love us....and if it bothers you that us Lebanese are Living to unite, to love, to dream, to grow, to unite, to unite, to unite, then kiss our fat asses COZ WE CAN and oh baby WE WILL...it seriously kills you seeing us loving each other, doesn't it?...when in 2005, 2 FN million Lebanese marched the streets in the name of unity, you supported the ugly July 2006 Israeli INVASION and ATTACKS on the Lebanese soil and CITiZENS!
Gus, you gained many fans and me...
Hass

Gus Bridi said...

To "Bob":

Let's start over again. Perhaps we both got a bit too emotional. With regard to your AP report, my response to that is "so what?" Am I supposed to be impressed with the notion that the American government advocated on behalf of Israel and take this as some kind of news? Israel STILL occupies parts of Lebanon. Israel STILL violates Lebanese airspace DAILY. These are acts of war.


Are you asking me if it were wise for HZ to engage the IDF? Of course it wasn't wise to. But to suggest that Israel was justified in destroying all of Lebanon and killing 1200 Lebanese civilians is beyond any kind of universe of reason particularly when you consider Israel's continued hostilities vis a vis Lebanon.

Now, this is not a "liberal" position, nor a "conservative" position, nor even an anti-Israel position. This is a position of common sense. Israel occupied Lebanon from 1982-2000 when it was FORCED to withdraw from most of it. It STILL to this day occupies portions of southern Lebanon. It STILL to this day flies its F-16's in daily sorties over Lebanon. It STILL occassionally conducts commando raids onto Lebanese land.

Forgetting the wisdom (or lack therof) of HZ in engaging the IDF for a moment, on what basis can you argue that Israel has a right to do this? And they've been doing this since Ronald Reagan's first term as president.

You are not going to hear me advocate for Israel "being wiped off the map." You are not going to hear me engage in anti-semetism. Buy you are going to hear me criticise Israel for what it continues to do in Lebanon and for its occupation of the West Bank and its blockade of the Gaza Strip.

Incidentally, these are positions which many Israelis share with me. Indeed many members of the IDF share these positions with me and more than 1000 have refused to serve (and have been imprisoned for refusing to serve) based on their objections to Israeli policies in Lebanon and the Occupied Territories. These are career soldiers. Many are high ranking officers, including a general.

Are you going to label these members of the IDF as liberals too? Just read what these soldiers have to say...explore these websites and read their articles:

http://www.seruv.org.il/englis...ants_letter.asp

(628 signatures with names, ranks, and units.)


http://www.seruv.org.il/englis...5&type=news

(Signed by 27 pilots including one General and several Colonels-- couldn't find a link that had all the signors, but here's an article about the General who signed it from Ha'aretz which is a highly regarded Israeli newspaper:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/pi...-wings-1.262849

http://www.seruv.org.il/englis...em.asp?msgid=85

(Signed by 13 members of Sayaret Matkal--this is the IDF's most elite commando unit, and one of the most elite commando units in all the world-- highly significant. This letter caused shock waves in Israel.)

Painting me as a "liberal" for my position against Israeli aggression in Lebanon is, excuse me for saying, misguided. Read what those IDF soldiers had to say. As a military man yourself, perhaps the words of fellow soldiers who are actually on the ground doing the killing can persuade you if the words of lawyer who can't spell cannot.

Gus

Anonymous said...

Thank you. Well said. A long hard look at 'what' and 'who' America really is LONG overdue. Once that happens, I'd put everything I have and don't have on predicting the world would be a safer and happier place :).

Gus Bridi said...

I noticed that the links were not copied properly in my prior post. Here is a link to the website homepage which, if you dig through it, will lead you to the signature pages and the text of the open letters authored by the various members of the IDF:

http://www.seruv.org.il/english/movement.asp

Anonymous said...

Israel is only protecting itself from Hezbollah's aggression. They accumulate tens of thousands of missiles directed at Israeli cities- aimed to kill Israeli citizens.

Nasralla's "liberal" phrase you quoted about having nothing against Jewdaism is false. He is killing Israeli civilians in order to terrorize them.

Take Hezbollah out of the country and Lebanon will have peace. This terror organization has infiltrated Lebanon's government and institutions, making it a Hezbolla state. Please don't neglect that in your posts.

Plus, please don't neglect the devastation and conquest of Lebanon by Syria. For some reason you don't remind Syria in your story, only Israel.

That's what you usually do, isn't it? You choose a small portion of reality to believe in, in an extreme fashion. You choose to hate Israel and draw it as the source of all evil, yet you forget Syrian influence over Lebanon, and now Hezbolla's.

Until Lebanon is not a free and independent state, free from the Islamist extremists, it will have no peace. Luckily, as long as anyone threatens Israel, Israel prevails.

Your post is nice, but please take a more realistic approach for reality when you form an opinion.

P.S
In the heart of Tel Aviv there is a mosque- Hasan Bek, you should Google it.

Anonymous said...

hmm...

That Israeli attacks on Lebanon is not in the name of Judaism, I don't think is 100% true. That there is an Israel in the first place is because some Jews decided not to wait for the Messiah and decided to take their Promised Land now, no matter if they have to kick other people out of their homes to do it. Anyway a lot more Jews agree with these measures for Zionism than Muslims agreeing with the terrorist interpretation of Islam.

That the difference is that the Beirut synagogue is pre-existing is a red herring. There is already a 30-year old, small mosque (I've read it is more like a basement property, like most of the mosques in New York) in the neighbourhood. The property in question has itself been used as a mosque for years while waiting for the approvals to expand as a multifaith community centre. It will merely be retaining the place for prayer it ALREADY HAS for years. I heard Mayor Bloomberg himself clarify this. So it is also a renovation, albeit a major one, not a 'new big mosque'.

The development's name is Park51. The real estate developer explained that this is the name of the development as per its submissions, whereas Cordoba House is a name that Imam Feisal is partial to for naming it later when it opens, but is not currently its formal name. Therefore the accurate reference of the development is Park51 community centre.

The comparison of this development is not with a Shinto temple at Pearl Harbour. The correct analogy would be comparing it to a centre promoting integration and peace, a couple blocks from Pearl Harbour, proposed by Japanese Americans who were interned in camps by Americans just because they were the same race as the Kamikaze pilots, because the Japanese Americans want to make an effort to reconcile and integrate into the society. Now, why is that a problem?

Anonymous said...

Some of you completely miss the point of this article. It doesnt matter if the blogger has an anti Israel bias.

The fact of the matter is that a relatively small # of families (compared to the entire U.S. pop) suffered as a result of Islamic terrorists, but yet most unaffected Americans cannot make a distinction between those terrorists and Islam as a whole.

What is fascinating is that almost ALL Lebanese suffered (to varying degrees) at the hands of Israel, yet can clearly make a distinction between Israel and Jews as a whole.
It doesn't matter if you agree with what Israel did, look at it from the viewpoint of Lebanese who were on the ground, and you will see just how remarkable it is for them to build the synagogue.

Jad said...

Although the analogy is based on the same erroneous line of thought and arguments (i.e Bin Laden reflecting the Muslims and Zionism reflecting the Jews) put forward against the “Ground Zero” “Mosque”’’s construction, it is politically correct to assume that the outcome of the article is fair..

LeAnne said...

I appreciate the author’s response; however, it appears to me that this author wrote an article without remotely looking up what Park 51 was(for clarification, please visit www.Park51.org). The ‘community center’ will have a mosque on the premises. Please pass that information along.

“It doesn't strike you as odd that a country entangled in decades of Civil War over religion can "tolerate" a synagogue, while a country who pats itself on the back ad nauseum over the First Amendment can't "tolerate" a mosque (which isn't even a mosque, but a community center)?” Does it not strike you as odd that the author hasn't looked up how many mosques have been built in the US after 9/11?

A few examples, although not a comprehensive list of mosques built in the US after 9/11 are: Islamic Center of East Valley (Chandler, Ariz 2008); Al-Sabeel / Masjid Noor al-Islam (San Francisco, Calif. 2002); Islamic Center of Elizabethtown (Elizabethtown, Ky 2008); American Islamic Community Center (Madison Heights, Mich. 2005); Bosnian Islamic Center (St. Louis, Mo. 2004); St. Louis Islamic Center (St. Louis, Mo. 2010); Noor Islamic Cultural Center (Columbus, Ohio 2006); and Khadeeja Masjid (Salt Lake City, Utah 2002).

That to me says the complete opposite of what Gus is waging against those of us that are against the 'community center.' I personally don't want any religious institution erected there (the church nearby has been there since the 1700s). In case many of you don't watch American media and only notice when something like this appears, there was also a HUGE debate waged about the construction of the Freedom Towers. But I guess since you couldn't point your finger that we were just being intolerant of Islam, you didn't notice.

Lina said...

I am so proud to be an American lebanese. I am muslim and I loved reading this article. I am muslim married to a devoted Christian . We are happy, we respect each other's religion, my Quran is side by side with his Bible.
I have created a Facebook group: I am proud to be muslim, because everyone is asking the moderate muslim to speak out,and we are speaking out loud now . Please join us , everyone , from all religions ,is welcome ,

Bleezy said...

Hasan Nasrallah also said, "If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli." (New Yorker, Oct. 14, 2002)

One week later he said "If they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide." (Daily Star, Oct. 23, 2002)

Convenient quotation pull, Mr. Bridi.

I agree Newt Gingrich is an idiot... but arguing against an idiot rarely gives credence to your cause.

Gus Bridi said...

I really don't know how many time to say this before it sinks in, so I will cut and paste my comment from another post in the hope that it will eventually sink in:

"It should trouble you that a statement which came from Hezbollah sounded like a statement from a First Amendment lawyer, while the statements coming out of Newt Gingrich's mouth (and more shockingly) Harry Reid's mouth sounded like they were coming out of the mouth of Hassan Nasrallah.

That was the POINT of the article. Hassan Nasrallah is not being advertised here to be Martin Luther King. What should shock you and nauseate you and unequivocally revolt you is that the Democratic Senate Majority Leader of the United States and the former Republican Speaker of the House of the United States came off sounding like they were advocating on behalf of the "party of God" whilst the leader of Hezbollah, in one brief statement, sounded like an AMERICAN."

Are you getting the picture yet? This article isn't even about Israel. This article wasn't about the Lebanese Civil War. This article was about what the Israeli's did in July, 2006. They DID destroy all of Lebanon after all of Lebanon was rebuilt. Whether you agree with their actions or not THEY DID DO THAT.

The Lebanese rebuild a synagugue in downtown Beirut in 2008 for its Jews and were able to distinguish between its Jews and Israeli Jews.

That's it ladies and gentlement. That's the point of the article--it's not about Israel being attacked by its neighbors in 1947, it's not about the Syrians or the Lebanese Forces, or the Lebanese Army, or the PLO, or even Hezbollah.

We are all aware there was a civil war. We are all aware there were several factions at each other's throats which destroyed the country. And we are aware that after the war, the country was rebuilt--we started from scratch. In 2005 we saw the Cedar revolution--and literally started from scratch with a new country.

At that time there was only one country occupying Lebanon, and that was Israel in the south. HZ having removed the IDF already from most of Lebanon, continued to engage the IDF to extract the IDF from the remainder of Lebanon. The IDF then destroyed all of rebuilt Lebanon, and subsequent to that the Lebanese rebuilt AGAIN, and part of that rebuilding process included the rebuilding of the synagugue.

That is the "Reader's Digest" history lesson. The debate has now turned accussing me of being biased and taking a side simply by pointing out the obvious--in 2006 Israel destroyed Lebanon. Well if they didn't who did? Invading Martians? Was is it a tornado? An attack of killer tomatos?

The point of this article was not to paint Hassan Nassrallah as a peace advocat either--the point was to juxtapose his one phrase with the phrases of Gingrich and Reid to show how ironic it is that a man we label as a "terrorist" said, in this one instance, something quite "American", while two Americans said something quite un-American.

These are not difficult points to grasp if you have an open mind when reading this article. They are impossible points to grasp if your reaction to this was reading the word "Israel" and then having someking of Pavlovian reaction to that word and snap back.

Let's try an experiment: "Israel, Israel, Israel."

(That should trigger a predictable response)

idamakled said...

Its well said article, thanx, but i feel soryy for the i love lebanon, i like to say to him how do u love lebanon???? by hate? u r so ignorant. and i like to say to ziad sabag u r so ignorant, if u want lebanon to be more europeon why dont u go and live in europ?
the problems not with the American people, the problems is with its media who is misleading its fellow citizens.

idamakled said...

Anonymours said that israel is protecting itself from Hezbollah's aggression, u idiot, Hezbollah is a risistance party who's trying to protect its land from the occupiors which is israel, what is it with u ignorants, u want lebanon to say to israel welcome to our country, u can kill and distroy whatever u want and whoever u want, hezbollah was born after the occupation of the israeles to south lebanon, i cant believe how many idiots and ignorants there is in the world

Anonymous said...

I can kind of see both sides here, and I have friends from Israel, and Lebanon (close friends). So this makes it a lil' tense in our conversations, but no one seems t omention that these hopitals and buildings being blown up, in the last war, are due to hizbullah, and their propensity for violence. If someone visits harm on my family, am I to sit idly by, and then when U run into Ur neighbors house, or a school, am I to just turn around and go home? I think that the people of Lebanon suffer terribly, when there's no need to. Iran, and Syria should stay out of that beautiful countrys' affairs, and let them flourish into whatever their true potential, and contribution to the world really is. I will never dismiss, or diminish the suffering of the Lebanese population, but Hezbollah, and groups like Hamas shouldn't put their countrymen whom they claim to fight for in harms way, by using them as human shields.

Anonymous said...

I enjoyed reading your post, however I have to disagree with your point of view on the matter.
I think that building an 'Islamic center' -including a Mosque that can accommodate up to 1000 worshipers according to the developer (Google 'Cordoba House' or 'Park 51')- is an act of unnecessary provocation.
The 9/11 events started the growing anti-Muslim wave in the US and numerous Western countries, and it back-lashed in the Middle East with a rise in extremism.
I think it's a shame that we are looking to provoke racism in the US by building an Islamic center 2 blocs away from Ground Zero, where 3000 people died due to a dozen of men claiming they were acting in the name of Allah.
You want to point a finger at racism? Start accusing your neighbor before diverting the attention to another country! do WE tolerate other religions?? do WE fully accept a new neighbor coming from a different sect? or have mixed neighborhoods? I doubt that.. and all this coming from an Atheist AND tolerant person.
The Synagogue in Lebanon was already here since the early 20th century, it might have been renovated lately as you stated but it was in NO way an act of provocation...
Besides, all this 'open-mindedness' in Lebanon is only a facade, and we're probably light years behind becoming 'American', whatever that means!
Yet again, that's the opinion of a humble blonde:)

Anonymous said...

yeah, cant really say that we were at war with the terrorist that attacked america. mr. many more deaths then you nananana! Those countrys have been at war and outright saying death to isael and all its people. when did you hear a american or israel president saying death to any country and all there people... its not about rights... its about maosque harboring terrorist in the past and today... blind bats for instince

muslimk21 said...

Gus, very fanstically written article!! You hit the head on the nail with this article!! The difference between the people of Lebanon and the people of USA is that the people of Lebanon generally take the time to learn the facts!! Americans unfortunately have become lazy and no longer aspire to learn the facts on their own but would rather be spoon-fed a news feed regardless of its authenticity. Please keep writing!!

Waj said...

Well it is not just enough to draw a line between a Lebanese Jew and an Israeli soldier who happens to be a Jew....but between a Lebanese Jew and a Zionist Jew! Synagogue or no Synagogue, the later should not be welcomed in our country!

This is self explanatory:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=1557965197042&ref=mf

Joseph Shahadi said...

Gus,
I really admire your essay. You've captured the inanity of the opposition to the Cordoba House eloquently; (Getting blowback from anonymous Zionists hellbent on intentionally misreading you is just the cost of doing business: They do seem to sit at their computers day and night, scanning the 'net for comment-threads to hijack, don't they? Yawn.)

As a New Yorker I'm continually repulsed by the relentless conservative appropriation of 9/11. The people making the biggest noise about the Cordoba House weren't here on 9/11 and have never even seen Lower Manhattan, which is hardly the "hallowed ground" of their fevered imaginations. Will they protest every porn shop and bodega in the neighborhood too? Idiots.

I'm proud of Mayor Bloomberg's moral leadership and I'm happy to learn the Lebanese dealt with a similar issue like human beings and not pack of racist jackholes.

I'd love to re-post this on my blog, if that's okay. I think a lot of people should see it.

Best,
Joe Shahadi

Anonymous said...

You conveniently ignore that Syria has de-facto occupied Lebanon for years.

Gus Bridi said...

To Joe Shahadi:

Thank you dearly for your words, and I strongly appreciate your support and your articulate commentary.

You absolutely have my permission to repost my article on your blog.

Gus

Nadine said...

Thank you Gus for an outstanding article. 9/11 means a lot to me as my first cousin, very much a christian, was killed in the North Tower in 9/11, yet none of us his family have a problem with the rebuilding of a pre-existing mosque into a community centre, which is not even on the site itself. In fact we welcome it as a symbol that human beings can come together after a tragedy of this magnitude, forgive and live together in harmony.
I have also witnessed firsthand the Israeli invasion of Beirut in 1982, and still cringe when I remember the sound of the sirens when the Israeli jets would come a-bombing, and we would have to run into shelters...very regular occurences that unfortunately started long before 1982 and are still happening today.
I think what you wrote was very relevant and well researched, and your responses to the comments pretty balanced and informative, save for a couple of VERY UNDERSTANDABLE rants :) And to all your detractors and critics who did not get the point of your article, (real or perceived spelling mistakes notwithstanding...) I believe they should devote serious time to reading old history books and news articles, preferably ones pre-dating 9/11 and all the hysteric writings that understandably followed.
Thank you again.

Anonymous said...

"Why is that when a christian builds a church in the middle east, a muslim has to build a bigger mosque beside it?"
Go to any newer Christian neighborhood in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, and the West Bank and you'll find a large church with no mosque nearby it.

"why not built a bigger church right next to it or even bigger jewish temple. Would you think its more fair than?"
Good question, why not? How do you quantify fairness? Would it be fair if someone built the world's largest Zoastrian Fire Temple in Lower Manhattan? Would it be unfair?

"I fear that being Jewish in Beirut, going to the new synagogue, etc. is not the non-issue you imply it is."
I don't think he implies that, he's just allowing the Cordoba Center wont end islamaphobia or xenophobia in America.

"a state just like Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran , Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Labia etc."
Everyone one of those states had its own unique history, modern founding, and current existence. Iraq, Lebanon, the Sudan, and Israel all share having a refugee situation. Israel's refugee situation makes it pretty unique, even though its troops have gone from Lebanon, its people have been in camps there for 60 years and sadly, it refuses to recognize their countrymen as "their people" and the Lebanese government has treated them with similar disdain.

"THIS IS BECAUSE IT POSES AN EASIER TARGET TO ELIMINATE ONCE ALL OF THE JEWS ARE IN WORSHIP AT THE SYNAGOGE HEZBOLLA WILL CHOOSE TO BLOW IT UP AND CALL IT A SUCCESSFUL MISSION."
stop huffing glue!

"Israel is only protecting itself from Hezbollah's aggression. They accumulate tens of thousands of missiles directed at Israeli cities- aimed to kill Israeli citizens."
Pretend for a moment you live in Beirut and think how a Lebanese person might see it. Disliking Hezbollah and disliking the IDF are not mutual exclusive.

-Ty

Anonymous said...

Obviously a liberally biased essay. Why must they INSIST on this ONE SPOT when there are hundreds of other spots that will do the same thing elsewhere. And if you recall the NY governor offered those behind the building of the mosque another property just up the road for NO COST. And they are still insisting on it having to take place in that one place. There is obviously some reason they want it built there. It is only to pronounce victory over such a travesty like 9/11.

Gus Bridi said...

Obviously!

Anonymous said...

"It should trouble you that a statement which came from Hezbollah sounded like a statement from a First Amendment lawyer, while the statements coming out of Newt Gingrich's mouth (and more shockingly) Harry Reid's mouth sounded like they were coming out of the mouth of Hassan Nasrallah.

So this is your point. That Newt is an idiot and Hezbollah is more American? I agree, Newt is an idiot. Please don't think that one man can represent the entire US. That's stupidity. Just like the 19 muslims terrorists do not represent the Muslim religion. If this is your point then it is a silly one.

A lot of people are talking about Christians. Most Americans I know (about 90%) don't care about religion at all. It is wierd how people from other countries think in terms of religion and Amercans don't. This could be the disconnect that you guys are talking about in the commentary, where the Jews in Israel are not a religion but a state vs. Muslim terrorists are a religion over a state. We Americans (who really don't know much about the Middle East) do lump all Muslims together as all of the countries over there.

Good points on both sides, I don't care either way as I live in NJ and not NY. It would help everyone's points more if you kept your head and did not write with anger.

Anonymous said...

finally someone shedding light about wht israel is really like,hateful, misguided, twit!!

admirable article.

THANKYOU

Gus Bridi said...

Nadine, thank you for your kind words, and I wanted to let you know what you shared touched me deeply. I not only mourn your cousins loss on 9/11, but also understand your pain in having to endure what you've had to endure in Lebanon over the years. And I admire you greatly for being the embodiment of the Lebanese spirit.

Michael said...

This is just beautiful, wow. I loved it!

I just had a comment to make about what you said: "Regardless of whether or not you feel Israel had a right to do that, you cannot deny that Lebanese civilians harbored, and continue to harbor, a very real resentment against the government of Israel—this Jewish state—for those actions and the devestation [sic] those actions caused."

I suppose it could be redundant, but even if Israel had a "right" to invade, it was still the Lebanese citizens that also harbored the blunt of the attack. They are the ones who really lost in the end from the killing, the wounding, the evacuating, the destroyed property, and also the bad quality of life that ensues from destroyed roads, internet cables, power lines, bridges, the airport, and water ways, all which were done at the hands of the Israel government and IDF.

If you are looking for another great spotlight on the stupidity of this, check out Keith Olbermann's Special Commentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0

catbird said...

I'm following this dialogue belatedly having just received it from a friend recently moved from New York. Fascinating! My 2 cents:

1. Lebanon's "Ground Zero" as you call it is a piffling few acres compared to America's Ground Zero which appears to stretch from the WTC -2 blocks to Tennessee to Michigan or Wisconsin (somewhere over and up there) and as far west as California. (You'll recall that there is community opposition to the building of Mosques in at least 4 other cities across this great nation.) Seems there's no place in America that's far enough away from Ground Zero, so relocating the Community Center (it isn't a Mosque) means maybe Toronto? Vancouver? Is American Samoa still too close?

2. You're right (somewhere along the thread), there's been a Mosque in the nabe for some time, along with the delis, strip clubs, and falafel carts. And the guys selling knock-off sunglasses, handbags and, don't let me forget, those poignant souvenirs of the Towers shipped over from China's patriotic sweatshops.

3. And this morning the Imam of the proposed Mosque stated that all the hoo-ha was related to the upcoming American elections. This cynicism from a man who claims to be spiritual! But, really, what else can you expect from a terrorist these days.

4. And (this to Newt): Why should we expect any of the repressive Middle Eastern theocratic governments to acquiesce in the building of a synagogue? Don't their repressed, freedom-loving, opportunity-seeking citizens emigrate to the U.S. (when they can) so they can enjoy our unique First Amendment rights?

Gus Bridi said...

Thanks Michael, and Olbermann's commentary was an absolute classic!

With regard to the issue of the Lebanese civilians in the various wars, what I think is being lost by all the negative "anonymous" commentary is that Lebanon was already, in large part, rebuilt prior to the Israeli 2006 invasion. Yes there was a civil war which brought destruction to the country from various parties--Lebanese, Syrians, Palestinians, and Israelis. No question about it. Yes the Syrians occuppied Lebanon.

But hostilities, for the most part ceased in the early 90's, the Syrians were "forced" out in 2005 during the Cedar Revolution, and Lebanon was rebuilt and transformed.

I don't think people in America understand what that 2006 Israeli campaign meant to the average Lebanese civilian. Your country went through two decades of civil war and occupation. Your country spends 15 years building from the ground up. And in a matter of 34 days all that rebuilding vanishes.

There was only one country dropping bombs on Lebanon in 2006, and that was Israel. And frankly that's when much of the resentment really became fully engrained even amongst many Lebanese that at one time were sympathetic to Israel (and there were many that were).

As dumb of a move as many perceived this to be by Hezbollah for engaging Israel, it was (I think) at least an equally dumb move on Israel's part--unless it was their intention to empower HZ, Iran, and alienate a significant minority of Lebanese that may have otherwise been open to creating a dialogue with them. I say that because that's what Israel "accomplished" in what is almost uniformly looked upon by the rest of the world as a collasal over reaction to HZ aggression back in July 2006.

Good, bad, or indifferent, and whether Israelis want to admit it or not, Hezbollah has become far more relevant in Lebanese politics, military and society BECAUSE of Israel's July 2006 campaign and not INSPITE of it.

Areej said...

Wow!
First of all, good article! good job.
I am just totally shocked by the responses. It is amazing how many people have read this article with so much prejudice and preconceptions.
No wonder wars are always happening. People just never listen.
well done people.
no one is listening to anyone else.
keep it up. I'm happy that the internet is arms-free.

Anonymous said...

It's amazing how it shows that some of the commenters are either flaming trolls or paid employees aimed at turning public opinion. Yes yes we get it you're all saying the same thing under different names now bugger off you're about as subtle as an elephant on a high-wire

Great article, but youshould have added that the mosque is actually a friggin cultural center and the tragedy is the misinformation paradigm that many Americans live in.

Not a couch said...

I was going to skip making any compliment but there are enough stubborn voices of the opposite sort, some guising this with speech or "points" or as criticism.


Thank you for writing this *amazing* article. Stay strong.

Anonymous said...

I only know one thing. All this talk wont matter really. People can argue as much as they want. Fact remains that one day all this wont matter. Muslims will triumph over Jews sooner or later and its all about the end result right? Jews were tortured by Germans, now they inflict pain and suffering on Muslims and they will lose eventually Nshallah.

Michael said...

Great points Gus, and you too Catbird!

Ahmad said...

I would like to congratulate the Author for this great article.


The comparison the Author of the article is making is very valid. Israel has destroyed much of Beirut during 1982 with its random bombing, as well as many other cities.

ps: There are Muslims who died too during 9/11.

austin said...

I think Gus you have made the point loud and clear. If the people are having problem understanding this, it is their level of brain function and lack of understanding. Excellent one. Hope those political morons raising issues are reading this.

Anonymous said...

So your point is, after kicking the living s**t out of a predominately muslim country, they CAN learn to play nice? Cool! Maybe we can start construction on new synagogues in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Afghanistan in a few years! ;-)

Gus Bridi said...

Dear Last Anonymous,

If you know anyone in the IDF who fought in the 2006 campaign...I would suggest you talk to them and revisit that comment.

Sincerely,

Someone who knows better.

Abu Ali said...

Interesting debate. Wasn't very hard for me to get you Gus, because I am Lebanese and know exactly what you are talking about. It is very saddening that Americans of such prominence as Gingrich would say something like that.

Whoever you are and whatever you think, from a human perspective - thinking politics aside, this should make sense. If you went through what many Lebanese went through in 2006, from 1982-2000, and even as far back as from 1948, 1967, 1973, 1978 etc, you would not be sitting there under your aircon talking this nonsense.

If you had lived the absolute terror of death looming above you, of bombs shaking the ground you stand on and explosives raising building from the ground, tanks rolling through your villages, bulldozers flat-ning neighborhoods, bullets wizzing in god knows how many directions, you would not deny the experience because of WHO caused it or Why or WHAT or HOW. If you ever endured that experience, you would never even try to reason with the side doing this to you. It's just so easy to dismiss the destruction of a village or town when it has never happened to you. I have a feeling most would get stressed if you bumped your car, now think of going through all I have mentioned above, enduring it alive, driving back to your town to find 90% has been completely FLAT (which is what happened in my village), and then (as per what happened to some other unfortunate people i know) finding siblings, or parents or spouses etc mauled to death by the terror that had visited them (talking about blown up to almost unrecognisable state), you won't just cuss whoever did this to you, you will pray they be damned for ever.

Gus, you said what I have been thinking but couldn't articulate as well as you have. Israel has visited my country under so many pretexts only with miserable news. First, because we had an army, then because we had supported an Arab army fighting the IDF, then because of the Palestinians, then the Syrians and now Hezbollah. Hezbollah, people, did not and has not and never has occupied nor subjected the people of Israel to even a fraction of a percentile compared to what Israel has done to Lebanon. There is such bigoted bias in the way America deals with our miserable fate of being neighbors to such a dreadful country that has never seemed to leave us alone.

Hezbollah is our only savior. Hezbollah for me is the difference between getting beat up by a gang of criminals with my hands tied behind my back, or getting the same or even worse beating but with a knuckleduster on my fist - I'd rather go down knowing I atleast fought back, than get ravaged without being able to do a thing.

Hezbollah is our only line of defense against being kidnapped, violated, occupied, humiliated (occupation tax - imagine someone stays at your dwelling and you have to pay him rent, thats what occupation tax is), killed, maimed and never spoken up for by the silent world as now happens in the West Bank and Gaza everyday.

Every day I wake up resenting that Hezbollah is not as strong as I would like it to be, or Lebanon doesn't have an Army as advanced as the IDF to create a proper deterrent against foolish adventure, but then against I'm joyful when I think it could've been so much worse for Lebanon, and the South especially when it could've easily become another shithole besieged, bombed and humiliated without a squeak coming out.

This is exactly what you would say had you been in my situation. You love your IDF and marines for making your country so noticable, powerful and proud? Why am I supposed to be convinced I don't also have that right? I love my country to be proud, honorable and strong just as you do yours. To ask of me any different is stupid, full stop.

Abu Ali said...

Interesting debate. Wasn't very hard for me to get you Gus, because I am Lebanese and know exactly what you are talking about. It is very saddening that Americans of such prominence as Gingrich would say something like that.

Whoever you are and whatever you think, from a human perspective - thinking politics aside, this should make sense. If you went through what many Lebanese went through in 2006, from 1982-2000, and even as far back as from 1948, 1967, 1973, 1978 etc, you would not be sitting there under your aircon talking this nonsense.

If you had lived the absolute terror of death looming above you, of bombs shaking the ground you stand on and explosives raising building from the ground, tanks rolling through your villages, bulldozers flat-ning neighborhoods, bullets wizzing in god knows how many directions, you would not deny the experience because of WHO caused it or Why or WHAT or HOW. If you ever endured that experience, you would never even try to reason with the side doing this to you. It's just so easy to dismiss the destruction of a village or town when it has never happened to you. I have a feeling most would get stressed if you bumped your car, now think of going through all I have mentioned above, enduring it alive, driving back to your town to find 90% has been completely FLAT (which is what happened in my village), and then (as per what happened to some other unfortunate people i know) finding siblings, or parents or spouses etc mauled to death by the terror that had visited them (talking about blown up to almost unrecognisable state), you won't just cuss whoever did this to you, you will pray they be damned for ever.

Gus, you said what I have been thinking but couldn't articulate as well as you have. Israel has visited my country under so many pretexts only with miserable news. First, because we had an army, then because we had supported an Arab army fighting the IDF, then because of the Palestinians, then the Syrians and now Hezbollah. Hezbollah, people, did not and has not and never has occupied nor subjected the people of Israel to even a fraction of a percentile compared to what Israel has done to Lebanon. There is such bigoted bias in the way America deals with our miserable fate of being neighbors to such a dreadful country that has never seemed to leave us alone.

Hezbollah is our only savior. Hezbollah for me is the difference between getting beat up by a gang of criminals with my hands tied behind my back, or getting the same or even worse beating but with a knuckleduster on my fist - I'd rather go down knowing I atleast fought back, than get ravaged without being able to do a thing.

Hezbollah is our only line of defense against being kidnapped, violated, occupied, humiliated (occupation tax - imagine someone stays at your dwelling and you have to pay him rent, thats what occupation tax is), killed, maimed and never spoken up for by the silent world as now happens in the West Bank and Gaza everyday.

Every day I wake up resenting that Hezbollah is not as strong as I would like it to be, or Lebanon doesn't have an Army as advanced as the IDF to create a proper deterrent against foolish adventure, but then against I'm joyful when I think it could've been so much worse for Lebanon, and the South especially when it could've easily become another shithole besieged, bombed and humiliated without a squeak coming out.

Halimah Ali Al-Qadi said...

I agree that the writer of this article illustrates an excellent point about tolerance, examples of which you can find all over the Muslim world. However, I think his use of terms, like "idiots" and "twit" are regrettable. Also, this writer falls into a trap I have seen so many people fall into, including many of my fellow American Muslims, and that is exemplified by the following comment made by the author of this article:
"So how is it that Americans can’t distinguish between American Muslims who were victims of 9/11 and Saudi Muslims who were the perpetrators of 9/11?"
May I remind all of us that those responsible for the 9/11 attacks were not " Saudi Muslims" but a very minute fringe group of people who happen to identify themselves as Muslims. It is not only Muslim Americans who were victims of the 9/11 attacks but the vast majority of Muslims worldwide who did not support the 9/11 attacks and who have been labeled as terrorist by Islamaphobics, like Gingrich, Reid and others.

Anonymous said...

First of all the structure to be erected is an Islamic Center not a mosque, there will be no manarets or dome. Second of all Majeed Manhatten has been in the neighborhood since before the World Trade Center. This world the area of the proposed project was once known as little Syria http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/nyregion/25quarter.html. Due to the large Arab immigrant population that once resided in the area. So the argument that the Synagogue has always been there as apposed to this center is not entirely true. while the center itself has not been there there was a real mosque there and historical presence in the neighborhood where Arabs, who were christian and muslim resided. Finally, we need not forget what makes America unique and it is that we are a melting pot for people of all races, colors and walks of like. Lets not forget the muslims killed in 9/11, the American muslim soldiers who fought and died in the war on terror. The muslims killed by Al-Qaeda in Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, morroco, sudan Pakistan and other places. Al-Qaeda is also at war with the remaining 1.5 billion muslims that are not following its agenda. Although I do think that the location is extremely sensitive , it is an opportunity to show the terrorists what we are and what they are not. We are a tolerant nation that will not succumb to the same tactics and strategies applied by them. And finally that we are not at war with Islam but solely with Al-Qaeda

Joseph Shahadi said...

@Gus Bridi
I've cross-posted your excellent essay on my blog VS the POMEGRANATE.

http://bit.ly/9pfPGB

Best,
Joe Shahadi

Gus Bridi said...

Thanks Joseph! I'm honored to have it on your blog.

Anonymous said...

great article! Well it may be something strange for people who has never been in the middle east or lebanon before; or doesn't really know much about the mentality of the people living there. But in fact it was a matter of time for this project to be launched.

However, I would like to congratulate Gus for his good job and bringing this into discussion. But on the other side I feel sorry for SOME of the ignorants and pathetic people who commented on this article in the same language which was used during a 15 years of a civil war which no one won and there were only losers, meaning themselves, their families and beloved ones and most of all their country which they say that they love!

It seems they couldn't realize yet the fact that no matter if they call him God, Allah, or if they read the Bible, Quran or Torah; they all believe in the same God but call him different names and pray to him in different ways. None of these religions allow you to kill or harm anyone from other religions; on the contrary, they all ask us to love and help each other. So grow up and realize that the wars which happened and would happen in the future all over the world, has nothing to do with religion. It's all about politics and economics, but sometimes we are too naive to believe what our politicians say to us, so we follow them and clap always after their speeches without thinking of what they are saying! Thank you for listening!

Alan Rock Waterman said...

A Brilliant piece of writing, Gus. This deserves to be seen far and wide.

Demandrea said...

This is a great piece that has encouraged debate and hopefully opened some minds. Don't worry about the 'trolls' who dwell on spelling and grammar...they are Americans who only know one language and they resort to schoolyard taunts to mask their ignorance.

I met my husband in Texas because Israel bombed he and his family out of Beirut in 1978. He was just a baby, but his older brother and sister remember the bombs- one landed in my sister-in-law's bedroom and sprayed sulphur everywhere but didn't explode.

As an American, it was hard for me to differentiate between Jews and Israel until I realized that most conflicts aren't really about religion- it's the powers that be that use their people and their faiths to provoke them into action against each other, as has been done since the birth of religion. By hurting Lebanon and driving their citizens to every corner of the earth, Israel has created millions of ambassadors of truth to educate those of us who are in the dark on the subject.

Americans do not take the time to educate themselves on the similarities of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity, as they are all cousins of each other. Sometimes it takes being married into a new culture to really understand it. Lebanon has it all and I wish that everyone could go there once. One night as we sat at an outdoor cafe in Solidiere, we heard first the church bells of St. George's cathedral to our right, then the call to prayer from the mosque next to the church, then a Radiohead song from the speakers of the Rolex clock tower in the center of it all. Amazing!

Anonymous said...

What's your point?

Doesn't everyone already know Americans sue McDonalds for millions for coffee being too hot, and win? They relentlessly sue dry cleaners for millions because the dry cleaner loses a pair of pants? They get upset because the French won't go to Iraq so they rename French fries "freedom" fries?

Why should this "no mosque at ground zero" show we are less American than Lebanon?

I think it shows how American we are, sadly.

Many Americans get this, why don't you?

Thouraya said...

Amazingly written! I take my hat off to you for not just writing such a wonderful post, but also for taking the time to reply to some relevant and irrelevant (put very mildly) comments. Your rantings are totally in place.. I would've probably done the same. You are truly an inspiration!

Btw, there is a way for all those "Bob"s to have put their names. But I guess that's what cowards do, they hide behind "Anonymous".

Shadi said...

Gus really great article.
But my own opinion is that the sole purpose of this mosque is to create this useless debate back and forth between people who want the mosque and people who don't. When the truth is, the imam heading the mosque is not even a real muslim, he is an elitist puppet of the american CFR. Creating this type of clash between people is exactly the thing they excel at! And everyone putting energy into these debates is falling right in to their trap.
We need to start ignoring the mainstream media and do our research to see the truth!

Anonymous said...

Dear Gus let me address this note to you and to all those who have commented on your post.
My name is Tavit and I am a Lebanese Armenian and an American citizen. I have lived in many countries from Lebanon, USA, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, and Syria to name few for long years. “YOU CAN NOT CHANGE HUMAN NATURE” thousands of years back up till this day mankind despised one another and it will never end. That is why you have different countries, borders, languages, political organizations and religious beliefs.
By nature people focus on what they disagree rather than what they agree on. Two people viewing at a letter “b” written on a window from opposite ends one will argue it is a “b” and the other it is a “d” naturally they are both correct but the point is they try to prove the other person is wrong instead.
Enough said we know why there are different views for the mosque and both sides believe they are right. I have lived the Middle Eastern culture and I know we do not proceed with a wedding when we just walked to a funeral of a loved one.
The point is do we want to eat the grapes or kill the vineyard guardian? If the intention is to build a church or a mosque or any prayer home for God where it is built is not important, God will still hear us so no worries. I did not hear anyone saying do not build a mosque which is the good news so why we focus on the bad news instead. Build it few hundred meters away God won’t mind so why do you?
For all of you who live the land of the profits you all know there are different religious prayer homes in most Middle East countries with no exception apart from Saudi Arabia which is compelled because of Holy Makah and Medina and out of respect we do not see any church on the Saudi Arabian lands. Nevertheless, it is accepted fact and no one argues the point and it is respected. Therefore, showing a good thing you have done or a bad thing they have done does not justify a future action in my opinion.
God by no means would accept your prayers Christian or Muslim or any other religion when it discomforts you fellow neighbor. Now how good of a believer and a person are you by doing so.

Gus Bridi said...

Thank you for the prior comments. Addressing Tavit, the issue of this cultural center is not an issue of whether God will hear these peoples' prayers a few hundred meters away. This is an issue of what is it to be an American. Are we in a country which celebrates religious freedoms or aren't we? Are we intellectually capable of differentiating between American Muslims and AL Qaida terrorists or aren't we?

300 Muslims were murdered in the 9/11 attacks. If they cannot be distinguished from Al Qaida and they are not allowed to be counted as Americans and human beings, then we might as well erase their numbers from among the dead.

These people have been in that neighborhood for 30 years. These people bought a building that was abandonned for 8 years that no one wanted. And if those grounds are "sacred" enough for strip bars and porn shops, they certainly are "sacred" enough for a cultural center.

Either this is America or it isn't. Either we are tolerant people or we aren't. Either we consider Muslims Americans or we don't.

Al Qaida isn't building that cultural center. Americans are building that cultural center.

jademm said...

I think this is proof of what I've said all along. It is individuals, and not whole cultures, that make or break this world.

Israel's government and military have behaved deplorably, but most Israelis and Jews have not.

Although most Arabs are viewed unfavorably in the non Arab world, some continue to show great exception to the rule,

There is no denying the actions of certain Jews, Israelis, Arabs, Terrorists, Americans and extremists. Yet, in the light of those actions, there is still humanity and understanding.

I have always believed that we all can and must work together to bring a lasting peace to this world.

There is a huge obstacle, however, when anyone says things like "Israel did what Israel does and destroyed it all...Substitute any country and the sin is the same. Not all Isralis are bad, nor are all Arabs, and this is the First, and MOST IMPORTANT step to a lasting peace..

jademm said...

Gus, you are obviously a very talented writer,but I am so glad I never read any of your comments before I posted mine. I would have been terrified to speak my mind in either position with the kind of stuff you write back to the posters here. Granted, many of us do not see it your way. Many of us may not get it at all. However, your attacks on some people (deserved or not_- You're the author, the Lebanese Ambassador at the moment) are an expression bordering on oppression and censorship. I was living in Israel during the Golan Heights war, and one of my dearest friends and I were at Rosh Ha Nikra together. It was ugly and scary, but not half as scary as you are, and you wonder why we westerners are afraid to open up to Arabs -- look in a mirror.

jademm said...

By the way, when I was at Rosh Ha Nikrah, I was a 16 year old student, in civilian garb. The Lebanese soldier on the other side of the "Line" didn't care. He was ready to shoot me if I moved at all. I don't think all Lebanese are like this jerk, but a soldier and a journalist are held to higher standards of emotional and intellectual control.

Gus Bridi said...

I appreciate your post, and I'm sorry if you found what I said offensive, it just happens to be coming from the presepective of the ones on the ground when those Israeli bombs and artillery shells land.

I am sorry a Lebanese soldier standing accross a mountain top frightened you with his gun.

Gus Bridi said...

(oh come on, now that was funny!)

Thouraya said...

Okay, I know I'm going a bit off topic but this still relates to 9/11 and Muslims. :) I just came across this post and thought you should read it. I guess not ALL Americans are ignorant! There are some who are really trying to educate their kids about what REALLY happened on 9/11.
http://bit.ly/aaaNnb

Gus Bridi said...

Thank you for that link Thouraya! And believe me, I am well aware not all Americans are ignorant. This country certainly has its share of brilliant and compassionate people. (For some reason the dumb loud ones get all the TV time). Thanks again!

bon said...

Right. Israel kills Lebanese and bombs the infrastructure just for fun. Those perverted Joos in Israel, they just can't wait to slaughter some innocent Lebanese, 'cause they need fresh blood for their matzos. Right? Here's the thought, numbnuts - if Lebanese weren't so prompt in allowing Palestinians to murder Israelis from South Lebanon, they wouldn't be on the receiving end on the IDF and wouldn't have to pull propaganda projects like restoration of empty synagogues.

Gus Bridi said...

Thank you for your perspective Bon. I can honestly tell you I never really looked at it from that angle before.

Anonymous said...

So how far is this supposed 'mosque' from ground zero? Well having just got back from NY I can tell you that it's being built some 2/3mins walk away from the WTC site which is 2 blocks away. It cannot be seen from ground zero & vice-versa & you will not be able to see either site from either vantage point when the new ground zero building is completed.

Even if you tried you'd have to go out of your way to get to the said 'mosque' or ground zero. But its worth noting that the mosque is not a mosque per se (no minarets or early morning prayer calls) but a cultural centre that is being built which will have a prayer room, slight difference to a mosque, and something the press & some people could perhaps get to grips with. The centre is being built on Jewish, Islamic & Christian tenets of loving thy neighbour as thyself & is trying to bridge the religious gap between faiths again not mentioned in the press.

The fact that many differing religious groups back this initiative; Buddhists and Lutheran to Jews & Christians says something but hey lets not let that little detail get in the way of factuality. Add the fact that the Jewish Mayor of NY, yes Jewish, agrees with its right to be built is something to be commended which is conveniently glossed over.

I suppose the question I ask myself, coming from London, is that given we had our own 9/11 should we now be looking at tearing down the London Central Mosque because it offends us so given their close proximity to these awful atrocities as well as all those great middle eastern shops in the Edgware Rd, both being timely reminders of al-qaeda's bestial attacks or do we simply say live and let live as we seem to have done without rancour? I know which I prefer; the latter & not the former. Peace to all.

jademm said...

And I was an American student living in Israel cowering during airaids, living out of a suitcases, sleeping with shoes on and fully dressed because you never knew when an attack or an evacuation was going to happen. I have friends whose children were killed by Arab groups (Lebanese included) and who would donate their children's useable body parts to youg arab children who would die without the donations. Don't even pretend to find humor in mocking me about a Lebanese soldier who was aiming his gun in my face. Of all people HOW DARE YOU!

jademm said...

To anonymous that posted right before my last post, not only does the NY Jewish community feel strongly that the Mosque should be built, so do my Jewish friends and family bere in CA. One, we have always supported freedom of Religion. That is the foundation of America. Two, nobody would be complaining if it was a church or synagogue being built. People have to learn that not ALL Arabs are horrible people and that the Arab community as a whole had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Some radical stupid people who happened to have an Arabic ancestry did. Many Islamic people were killed then too. They should not only be honored, but should have a place to pray where it happened at the WORLD trade center (not the American Trade Center) . At the hear of this case is bigotry and fear. We as enlightened human beings must lovingly and patiently show by example that such feelings are ridiculous. I certainly hoped from the article that its author would be so enlightened instead of perpetuating it with condescension. Luckily, I have learned to live with disappointment and still fight for what's right. Let's see this mosque through. I think it is an important step towards real world peace.

Gus Bridi said...

Jademm,

I don't quite understand what you are so upset about. And I find your story rather unbelievable frankly. You are claiming you were confronted "face to face" with a member of the Lebanese army while in Israel? How is that possible? You are claiming your friends IN Israel were killed by "Lebanese groups"...where, when, and how? You were cowering daily from katyusha "rocket" attacks coming from Lebanon? When was this? If it was in July 2006, and you are comparing those "rocket" attacks with the hell storm Israel unleashed on all of Lebanon in July 2006 and the devestation that caused, it's a rather weak comparison.

I'm not trying to insult you or diminish your experience, and you certainly have a right to take a side, but you can't just make these assertions and not expect a response from someone coming from another perspective. What happenned to Lebanon as a result of Israeli aggression is completely uncomparable to what happenned to Israel as a result of Hezbollah aggression.

That being said, I admire the brave stand of many Israelis on multiple issues ranging from Palestinian soveriegnty to being against the war in Lebanon to being against the blockade on Gaza. Indeed I have marched in soliderity with many Israelis and Jewish people on these very issues. That being said, Israel is not free from criticism. Nor should you look at that criticism as an attack on you.

Lebanon did something comendable in rebuilding that synagogue in Beirut. You are entitled not to be impressed by that, in the same manner I am allowed to be impressed by it. You are entitled to voice your crticisms on that issue on my blog, and I am entitled to respond to your criticisms on my blog.

jademm said...

Gus: "I don't quite understand what you are so upset about. And I find your story rather unbelievable frankly. You are claiming you were confronted "face to face" with a member of the Lebanese army while in Israel? How is that possible?"

Jade: I was saying goodbye to a dear friend at Rosh Ha Nikra,, where the line between The Israeli and Lebanese border was extremely thin.

Do you not know Lebanese and Israeli landscape?" More importantly, who are you to mock me and call me a liar even if you don't believe me. That is rude and disrespectful. I would never do that to you, even though I think you are a very biased person and you have a penchant for using nastiness to censor others. That's not a good journalistic or political stance.

Gus; "You are claiming your friends IN Israel were killed by "Lebanese groups"...where, when, and how? You were cowering daily from katyusha "rocket" attacks coming from Lebanon? When was this? If it was in July 2006, and you are comparing those "rocket" attacks with the hell storm Israel unleashed on all of Lebanon in July 2006 and the devestation that caused, it's a rather weak comparison."

Jade: The children were killed in raids on their schools by various arab groups, some members of these groups were Lebanese, and it was June - August of 1983. I never said rocket bombs, I said air raids. You carry an ethnocetric egocentric chip on your shoulder. Lebanon is not an innocent victim. If you would stay out of Israel, Israel would have left you alone too.


Gus: "I'm not trying to insult you or diminish your experience, and you certainly have a right to take a side, but you can't just make these assertions and not expect a response from someone coming from another perspective. What happenned to Lebanon as a result of Israeli aggression is completely uncomparable to what happenned to Israel as a result of Hezbollah aggression."

Jade: You can't diminish my side because it is as valid as yours. The fact remains though, that clearly I am a better reader than you are because if you read any of my posts free of an eye to condemn me or my experience simply because I'm on the other side, you would have seen that I was not only impressed with the synagogue, but I felt it was an important step to world peace, just like I do the mosque. You are so busy condemning me because I called you on your emotional outbursts and presented the other side that you can't even read what's in front of your face.

You certainly have a right to take a side, but you can't just make these assertions and not expect a response from someone coming from another perspective.

I respected and commended you from the start. I expressed praise for Lebanon. Then, I read the crappy way you treated a lot of posters and called you on it. Since then you sought to belittle me and my experience in Israel. You mocked the scariest moment of my life. Sloppy journalism and bad international relationships at best. On a larger scale, that is the sort of stuff that could have dangerous repercussions.

jademm said...

Gus: What happenned to Lebanon as a result of Israeli aggression is completely uncomparable to what happenned to Israel as a result of Hezbollah aggression.

Jade: What happened to Lebanon as a result of Israeli aggression is completely unacceptable, and equally so is what happened to Israel as a result of Hezbollah aggressions. Until you can admit this, you are a biased, irresponsible journalist.

jademm said...

Gus: "What happenned to Lebanon as a result of Israeli aggression is completely uncomparable to what happenned to Israel as a result of Hezbollah aggression."

Jade: What happened to Lebanon as a result of Israeli aggression is completely unacceptable, and equally so is what happened to Israel as a result of Hezbollah aggressions.

Gus: " That being said, I admire the brave stand of many Israelis on multiple issues ranging from Palestinian soveriegnty to being against the war in Lebanon to being against the blockade on Gaza. Indeed I have marched in soliderity with many Israelis and Jewish people on these very issues."

Jade: How can you claim to show solidarity, when you are ridiculing me and mocking many other posters just because you don't agree with them? I believe you support those Israelis and Jews with whom you agree. With so many communities of Jews and Arabs getting along so well, it is indeed a crying shame that there is no real peace among our leaders. Of course, public opinion, swayed by people like you, is being driven against that ever happening.

Your reporting was great, and the Temple is wonderful, but your degradation of others and dirision of me is unacceptable.

Gus: "That being said, Israel is not free from criticism. Nor should you look at that criticism as an attack on you." You are absolutely right. Israel is not free from criticism. Neither is Lebanon. Neither am I. Neither are you. So what's your point?

I didn't take any criticism of Israel as an attack on me, I took your mockery of me and your attempt to discredit my claim that I, too, was a victim of the terrors of war INFLICTED BY LEBANON AND THE PLO as an attack on me. I can't believe a man as smart as you couldn't figure that out.

jademm said...

Gus: "Lebanon did something comendable in rebuilding that synagogue in Beirut. You are entitled not to be impressed by that, in the same manner I am allowed to be impressed by it. You are entitled to voice your crticisms on that issue on my blog, and I am entitled to respond to your criticisms on my blog."

Jade: Again, proof that you don't read as well as you write...I love that the Lebanese people did what they did, and the building is beautiful. My very first post says so, but I'm sure you didn't read it. You are so obsessed with punishing me for telling you that good journalists are expected to exercise a bit more self control than f-words (and yes, I handle them fine) and mocking those with whom they disagree.

Further, I welcome your responses to my comments. I love a good intellectual discussion. Notice, I didn't put you down at all while you attempted over and over to discredit me. Maybe you need a few classes in diplomacy.

I am after promoting peace. I never painted Israel as the innocent victim, but those children and other people who were murdered by various arab groups, including individuals who were Lebanese, and the PLO, certainly were innocent victims.

Equally, all the people and buildings and such that were destroyed in Israeli actions in Lebanon and other Arab countries around the world were innocent victims too. We need to stop blaming and condemning each other. This entire exchange has begun to sound like a bunch of kids fighting in a school yard "He starated it." "She hurt him worse"

All this hate and warring between our countries is STUPID and IMMATURE, and we need to not only build temples or churches or mosques, or other religious centers, WE NEED TO STOP THIS STUPIDITY AND BECOME HUMANITY WITH ALL OUR DIFFERENCES CHERISHED.

jademm said...

I just noticed upon reviewing my comments, that I mistyped a word. Out of honor and integrity, I must correct it. I was living in Israel and experiencing these war horrors in June-August of 1982, not 1983. Sorry for the mistype.

Anonymous said...

Gus,I understand that you an attorney. As an attorney, you should know to research, investigate and use only facts before, during and, after presenting your case. You have ridiculed my wife, who was an eye witness to the atrocities happening in Israel/Lebanon at that time.You DISREGARDED what she had to say and DISRESPECTED her as a person.
By your posts on this forum you have apparently twisted the facts(as you know them) creating Anarchy and trying to incite a riot against Israel. By the way Hezbollah is a Lebanese TERRORIST organization (As if you didn't know)! So the damage done in Israel and Lebanon by them is REAL. Syria has also terrorized Lebanon but, NOT ONE WORD was said about that. The WHOLE TRUTH must be told!

Gus Bridi said...

To Jademm and her "Anonymous" husband:

I'm quite convinced your intent to come in here was to stir trouble. Contrary to your allegations, I have not "censored" anyone. I've let people post whatever they wanted in here without deleting or editing what they write, and all I do is respond in kind. Frankly, it's you who are boldly trying to censor me in my own blog.

Secondly, I never so much as said "boo" to you. Read back through your comments. You addressed me, prior to me ever addressing you with this comment: "It was ugly and scary, but not half as scary as you are, and you wonder why we westerners are afraid to open up to Arabs -- look in a mirror." I didn't take the bait, and I wasn't rude to you.

Though I appreciate your support for the Ground Zero "Mosque", your perspective on Lebanon is not a perspective I share, and as I stated before, I doubt its accuracy (which I have a right to do, on my own blog, where I let you freely post what you wish to post).

You claim you crossed into the Lebanese border from Israel in the summer of 1982 and were "shocked" that a soldier in the Lebanese army acted rudely and pointed a gun at you. You are aware that Israel invaded Lebanon and captured Beirut in June, 1982, aren't you? It's your claim that you entered into a war zone, crossed the borders of another country you had no right (as in a visa) to enter, in the middle of a war in which your host country was the invading country, and in which you had said host country's stamps presumably displayed on your passport? Is there anyone on earth that could reasonably suspect to be treated any differently than you were treated under those circumstances?

You talk on and on about "Lebanese groups" attacking Israel while you were in Israel in 1982, then when I called you on it, you altered it to Lebanese people in various groups. Really? Which groups? Because Lebanese nationals conducting terrorist activities in Israel in 1982 would truly be news to me. Please identify those groups.

You claim that you weren't under rocket attack in 1982, but you were hiding in bomb shelters because of Lebanese "air raids". This fascinates me terribly, as the Lebanese do not have an airforce. Precisely what were you being attacked with if it wasn't bombs dropped from planes or rockets fired from the ground?

With regard to your anonymous husband, I don't believe Hezbollah is a terrorist group. You do realize the PLO withdrew from Lebanon in 1982? Yet Israel occupied Lebanon for 18 years (not days, or weeks, or months--18 years). But for that occupation Hezbollah would be a non-entity. They were created in large part, to resist the Israeli occupation, and they drove Israel out of most Southern Lebanon in 2000. I may not agree with their politics, and I may not fair well under a regime led by them, but that doesn't make them terrorists.

Unfortunately, mainstream media will try to sell you on the notion that anyone fighting the IDF is a terrorist. Well, that doesn't work on this blog. If you want a blog which dedicates itself to towing the IDF line, believe me, there are plenty out there. This blog is not one of them.

Lastly, I will reiterate what I said before. I allow anyone and everyone to post an opinion on here. However, this is not a "warm and fuzzy" place. We talk about real issues, and we talk about those real issues with real emotions. If you are going to contribute (whether anonymously or in person) a post, if I (or anyone) has issue with what is said, a response will be given. Of course you are free to invite back anyone else to respond on your behalf--all your anonymous relatives are welcome to come here and attack my journalistic integrity, writing style, occassional emotional outbursts, and attempt to force me to label whomever group they pick as terrorists.

I look forward to your uncensored reply.

jademm said...

Gus: Secondly, I never so much as said "boo" to you. Read back through your comments. You addressed me, prior to me ever addressing you with this comment: "It was ugly and scary, but not half as scary as you are, and you wonder why we westerners are afraid to open up to Arabs -- look in a mirror." I didn't take the bait, and I wasn't rude to you.

Jade: Maybe YOU should read through your own comments as well. I posted one that was full of accolades for you and the Lebanese people. Then, I read the way you treated others. I protested. You retalliated by mocking me about being an innocent student on the ISRAELI side of the line and nearly getting shot by a Lebanese soldier. You suffered war troubles, so you say, and I didn't mock you. Why can't you show me the same respect? OH YEAH! I'm Jewish.

jademm said...

Gus: "You talk on and on about "Lebanese groups" attacking Israel while you were in Israel in 1982, then when I called you on it, you altered it to Lebanese people in various groups. Really? Which groups? Because Lebanese nationals conducting terrorist activities in Israel in 1982 would truly be news to me. Please identify those groups."

Jade: Why would I bother identifying anyone for you, when you refuse to read what I write, instead warping and interpreting it to use for your own political agenda. Case in point:

Gus: "You claim that you weren't under rocket attack in 1982, but you were hiding in bomb shelters because of Lebanese "air raids". This fascinates me terribly, as the Lebanese do not have an airforce. Precisely what were you being attacked with if it wasn't bombs dropped from planes or rockets fired from the ground?"

Jade: "I never used the words, "rocket attacks, bomb shelters, or hiding." I said I was "living in fear of air raids."

I believe you are very intelligent so it's not that you don't know how to read, I think you are simply distorting my words for more tools to mock me with simply because I am on the other side of the issue...and because I am Jewish.

jademm said...

Gus: With regard to your anonymous husband, I don't believe Hezbollah is a terrorist group. You do realize the PLO withdrew from Lebanon in 1982?

Jade: What I remember is being at Eilat and, observing from our camp, the night Yassar Arafat called on all Arabs to annihilate every single Jewish person living in Israel in July of 1982. I cannot say for sure who participated, but Arabs from all over the world obeyed Arafat. Please don't try to tell me that I didn't observe terrorist activity. Don't tell me ANY country is innocent. As I've said before, what happened to the Arab countries, and what happened to Israel are EQUALLY horrific. Anyone who denies that fact is simply not human in my book. By the way, you could never qualify for a Vulcan unless you joined a tribe from the dark ages...emotional outbursts on Vulcan are considered more disgusting than some people consider homosexuality.

Gus: Yet Israel occupied Lebanon for 18 years (not days, or weeks, or months--18 years). But for that occupation Hezbollah would be a non-entity. They were created in large part, to resist the Israeli occupation, and they drove Israel out of most Southern Lebanon in 2000. I may not agree with their politics, and I may not fair well under a regime led by them, but that doesn't make them terrorists.

Jade: You are absolutely right. What makes them terrorists is the senseless slaughter they've committed.

Gus: Unfortunately, mainstream media will try to sell you on the notion that anyone fighting the IDF is a terrorist. Well, that doesn't work on this blog. If you want a blog which dedicates itself to towing the IDF line, believe me, there are plenty out there. This blog is not one of them.

Jade: As Americans, we demand a blog that tells the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in an unbiased manner. The comments you've used to censor others make this blog so slanted you can skateboard on it.

Gus Bridi said...

Candidly, I had no idea you were Jewish until you just mentioned it now. And whether you're Jewish or not is irrelevent. You being Jewish, doesn't make you claims any more or less credible.

I never attacked you. Not in anyone of my responses to you. Frankly, it's rather obvious now you came in with an agenda to attack me and accuse me of all sorts of things. There are many Jewish contributors to my blog. There are many Jewish people who are members of my fan page. There are many Jewish people who don't agree with me on every issue that debate me without pulling the "you diagree with me because I'm Jewish card."

This has nothing with you being Jewish, and everything with you acting childish. For goodness sake you initially addressed me as an "angry Arab." I have treated you with extreme civility in every one of my responses to you, and will continue to do so.

If you cannot afford me the same courtesy, I suggest you find another place to cause trouble.

jademm said...

Gus, please kindly repost the post where I called you an "angry arab"?

jademm said...

Gus, I think the problem is that you don't consider "I'm sorry the soldier on a mountaintop scared you>" Or "I find your story to be completely unbelievable" to be attacks on me, but they are. You have made many such comments to me, my husband, and many people on this forum. You even used the F-word when attacking a poster. Can't you see that is wrong? Use the F word in court and you go to jail. Didn't they teach you that in law school?

You attacked my intelligence by even implying that I would cross enemy lines. I am not stupid. I am AT LEAST as smart as you are, and I really resent such comments.

I am not here to cause trouble. You even saying so is an attack on me. I am here to make sure that my rights as a Jew and as an American are not violated by anything you say.

Gus Bridi said...

I would be delighted to. In the second post you made, before I ever addressed you or your comments you wrote the following:

"It was ugly and scary, but not half as scary as you are, and you wonder why we westerners are afraid to open up to Arabs -- look in a mirror."

(My apologies...you didn't call me an "angry Arab", you called me a "scary Arab" who "westerners are afraid to open up to").

Precisely how did you expect me to take such a statement?

Gus Bridi said...

How are your rights as an American or a Jew being violated here? It was you who claimed you were violated somehow by a Lebanese soldier. You claimed he was pointing his gun right at you. You claimed he was acting rudely to you. When I asked if he did it accross a mountain top, you took offense to it and said it was done in front of you. When I asked what you were doing accrosse the border in Lebanon during the war, you now claim you weren't accross the border.

Too, this isn't a court room. THIS IS A BLOG. There is such a thing as freedom of speech here. On occassion, you will find language that may be objectionable to you. In which case you are free to move on to a more sanitized blog. Are you going to lodge complaints to Bill Maher's blog now too? Shall I provide a list to you of blogs where the "F word" is occassionally used.

Lastly, you do Jewish-Americans a COLOSSAL disservice to characterize anything in here as violating your rights "as a Jew." Must every criticism of Israel degenerate into such a ridiculous accusation?

jademm said...

You're right. I don't belong here. I don't need to be where I will be insulted because the Lebanese soldier didn't succeed in killing one more Jew.

I don't need to be where hate flows as free as the blood spilled by Certain Arab and Israeli forces alike run by a bigot who carries so much hate.

I try to bring light and goodness to the world, but I have to know when to quit. You are nothing more than a bully, and the best thing I can do is walk away from you and your bullying tactics. Of course, that just lets you victimize more people. Someday, someone better than I will see this post, and be victorious over your denigration of others and me.

jademm said...

However, before I go, as I'm not sure I will, a reminder to a "lawyer" who talks of free speech. It has been established into law that the 1st Amendment is granted only to the extent that it does not infringe upon the rights of others. Your comments have been infringing on my rights, whether you accept it or not. Further, they have been stirring up hatred towards Jews and Israel. That is not free speech. That is hatemongering. You are bordering on hate crimes, and should be very careful how you proceed whether I call them to your attention or not.

I have not yet decided whether I wish to continue bringing light to this Black Hole or not, but I would appreciate if you would think about how someone might feel when you tease them about having a gun in their face. You claim to be a victim of war, you must know how terrifying that is, and you wouldn't like to be teased about it just because someone didn't believe you. Wouldn't it be better to simply say, "I don't believe you" than to taunt the person you don't believe? Even the accused is supposed to be treated with respect. Didn't they teach you that either?

jademm said...

Gus: "How are your rights as an American or a Jew being violated here? It was you who claimed you were violated somehow by a Lebanese soldier. You claimed he was pointing his gun right at you. You claimed he was acting rudely to you. When I asked if he did it accross a mountain top, you took offense to it and said it was done in front of you.

Jade: For the record,

"I am sorry a Lebanese soldier standing accross a mountain top frightened you with his gun.

September 10, 2010 12:22 PM
Blogger Gus Bridi said...

(oh come on, now that was funny!)

September 10, 2010 1:13 PM"

is NOT "ASKING" it is insulting me because, as you said later, you didn't believe me.

Gus: "When I asked what you were doing accrosse the border in Lebanon during the war, you now claim you weren't accross the border." You ASSUMED I was across the border. Nobody would be stupid enough to be there. You stated it solely to inflame an argument. You knew I wasn't across the border. You knew how scary a gun in a kid's face would be, but instead of one ounce of compassion, you taunt me because I'm on the wrong side.

jademm said...

Gus: "Lastly, you do Jewish-Americans a COLOSSAL disservice to characterize anything in here as violating your rights "as a Jew." Must every criticism of Israel degenerate into such a ridiculous accusation?"

Jade: Has your hat turned into a CAR?

1) You have shown a complete contempt and disregard of those rights, so where do you get off telling me I'm doing a collossal disservice to them.

2) You actually think your judgement of me is going to deter me from doing what is right for my people?

jademm said...

CORRECTION

Gus: "When I asked what you were doing accrosse the border in Lebanon during the war, you now claim you weren't accross the border."

JADE: You ASSUMED I was across the border. Nobody would be stupid enough to be there. You stated it solely to inflame an argument. You knew I wasn't across the border. You knew how scary a gun in a kid's face would be, but instead of one ounce of compassion, you taunt me because I'm on the wrong side.
September 14, 2010 12:07 PM

jademm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

looks like one flew over the koo-koo's nest

Gus Bridi said...

Now if I laugh at that would that be considered an "attack"?

Anonymous said...

It's blatantly apparent to me that Jademm is grasping at straws here, and hasn't made a coherent argument or valid point; she's trolling.

jademm said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gus Bridi said...

My dear, I didn't make that "trolling" comment. That was submitted by an "anonymous" poster (perhaps your "husband"?)

Though I must say I do agree with the poster. According to Wikkipedia:

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2] In addition to the offending poster, the noun troll can also refer to the provocative message itself, as in "that was an excellent troll you posted". While the term troll and its associated action trolling are primarily associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels highly subjective, with trolling being used to describe intentionally provocative actions outside of an online context. For example, recent media accounts have used the term troll to describe "a person who defaces internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."

That's kind of what you're doing, no?

jademm said...

No, that is not what I was doing. You have made a number of inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] yourself. Are you trolling?

Also, unless you can prove I have "the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response" beyond a shadow of a doubt, you can't allege anything. Didn't they teach you that in law school either.

What can you hope to accomplish when you make disparaging remarks about my marriage, my credibility (were you there?) or someone else's comments? I know you feel strongly about your side, and I respect that. Can't you show the same respect to those who don't agree?

I am just appalled that someone who shows such little caring about others that he can be so nasty and laugh it off is in a position where he can slant the truth in public and private arenas.

This is a public forum. I am free to respectfully submit my thoughts and to defend against the slurs you have put upon myself and others.

I'm sure you can find people who support your idea that I'm trolling. I can find as many who don't so what?

I agree with what you said before. Israel is NOT immune from criticism.

NEITHER ARE YOU, NEITHER AM I.

But, I have never labeled you or degraded you, something you do all to freely to me and to others.

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